Profits? Someone’s Got To Be Making Money

This panel discussing how all parties involved can find creative ways to fill the house and share the wealth was covered at a rapid-fire pace with Square Peg Concerts’ Dan Steinberg at the helm.

Queen’s “We Will Rock You” followed by panelist introductions to Alan Parsons Project’s “Sirius” preceded Steinberg’s grand entrance wearing a football referee’s uniform. The tone was set.

“Right off the bat, I want to get through the bullshit. They’re all going to tell you they’re barely making it, they’re breaking even, life is hard out there, they’re struggling,” Steinberg said. “They all drive fucking awesome cars, live in really nice houses, and they’re all making ‘Fuck You’ money. Don’t buy the pauper act.”

Steinberg kicked off the discussion rounds by asking BOK Center’s Jerry Goldman how to get past rack rates – the first-time rates generally posted on venue websites.

“Like any building, we give more preferred deals to promoters who do more shows in our buildings,” Goldman said. “The more content you bring us, the more likely we are to help you out in the long run.”

Steinberg asked The Agency Group’s Andy Somers: When is it OK to ignore past history?

“It’s sometimes unavoidable [but] it’s not OK to ignore history. Somebody’s going to develop your act. If they can grow with the act, if they’re like a young promoter, you stay with them,” Somers said. “Sometimes you make a venue play because you’re developing an act and you have to play for a different promoter. You try to keep history, you try to stay with it.”

Jason Zink of Sherpa Concerts was asked: Why has the artist percentage of gross walk-out become such an issue?

“I think the artist wants to feel like they’re getting treated fairly. [With] all of the random expenses that people put into deals, they feel like they’re not getting everything,” Zink said. “To look at it as the percentage of gross sort of makes sense. I’ve been getting a lot more of those deals in clubs.

“Aaron Pinkus at Paradigm is kind of the champion of that deal. He pitched it to me and I didn’t understand it. Aaron’s a little bit more than strong-willed, so I tried it. Once I realized he wasn’t trying to fuck me, the no-guarantee and we’re-all-in-it-together if you like partners started to make sense.”

Steinberg asked Roadrunner Records’ Harlan Frey: How has his label continued to grow and sell records regardless of the economy?

“We’re doing everything we can to find new avenues to promote,” Frey said. “[We try to] find new bands that are able to cut through the clutter [and whose] music speaks to the fan greater than everything else. All the advertising in the world can’t buy you that connection to the fans.”

After a round of “Truth Or Patrón” where the panelists had to answer Steinberg’s tricky questions or drink a shot – with Steinberg keeping pace – the discussion turned to the pros and cons of the 360 deal.

“I think you have to look at what system you’re plugging in to. For example, I’m managing a 14-year-old girl named Coco Jones who’s plugged into the Disney system,” Red Light Management’s Jonathan Shank said. “For her, as a 14-year-old, who can be on ‘So Random’ and be in a Disney Channel movie, plug in to other soundtracks and make a record for Hollywood Records, it makes sense. But you have to look at the system you’re plugging into and see what they have to offer back before you give up your ancillary revenue.”

Steinberg asked AEG Live’s Mike Ducharme: When buying a national tour, how does that change the process when buying a single date?

“It sucks when it’s a Justin Bieber show and it’s going to play in my theatre and I’ll send it to the arena, but it’s great for the company,” Ducharme said. “I think at AEG, we’re very selective as to what we pick. They do talk to us at the local level to make sure they’re playing the right rooms when they’re building the models.”

Somers said he doesn’t think the 360 deal is short-cutting a band by working without a local promoter.

“We’re at an age now where some baby bands could become arena bands in a year or less,” Somers said. “Even though you never heard of them a year-and-a-half ago, they could have been playing for three years and it just blows up and you’re not going to see them again.”

The discussion turned to ticket service charges, with Steinberg asking New Frontier Touring’s Paul Lohr: How much do ticket fees affect sales on an act like Lohr’s client The Avett Brothers?

“I’m very proactive in asking promoters to get with the ticketing companies to limit fees,” Lohr said. “I think it should be in the $6 to $7 range for a $35 ticket with The Avett Brothers. It’s fair. We put that on top.”

As to listing the gross ticket fee with other fee information, Somers said, “Any act, when you’re booking a date, should know what the gross ticket price is going to be and what it’s going to cost a fan to see your artist. It behooves us to spend the time to try to keep it down.

“The problem with ticketing fees, as it’s always been, is you’ve got to place a value on the convenience charge and that’s what the price should be. It shouldn’t be a price more than what the value of that convenience is, if the company providing that service can afford to do it.”

Steinberg asked StaffPro’s Cathy Felling, formerly with Ticketmaster: If promoters and venues didn’t demand rebates, would ticket service fees be lower?

“It’s a complicated question. Everyone in this room knows there’s a lot of different revenue streams,” Felling said.
“Whether it’s facility fees, service charge, parking, there’s so many different things that go into creating the pool of revenue and it’s divvied up 1,000 different ways.

“That revenue is what pays all the players in the game their fair profit, which you should have. So you could call it different things, but if you take a dollar away from here it’s probably going to show up somewhere else and be called something different. I don’t see any of you guys saying, ‘I’ll just take a dollar less on every ticket.’”

Goldman drew the only panel “flag” of the day when he was asked: As a venue, do you have the flexibility to change the fees when the show calls for it?

“I would say very, very little. Once you set the precedent, everybody’s going to ask for it, you have contracts …”

“No, the rest of them don’t care. Just for me,” Steinberg interrupted.

“I guess the answer to that, Dan, would be no because you always ask for $1.50 to be added on to the service charge.”

Steinberg’s makeshift yellow flag hit the ground.