‘Pay The F***ing Money And We’ll Work From There’: Touring The World In 2020

Joey “Vendetta” Scoleri, head of industry relations, Live Nation Canada, hosted a panel on worldwide touring opportunities. He opened by establishing that this business had changed a lot over the past decade, but really rapidly in the last five years, as the demand for experiences had escalated.

With that in mind, he asked his fellow panelists all about the state of global touring and potential new markets.

Neil Warnock, UTA’s global head of touring, recalled working with The Beatles and Deep Purple in the late 1960s, when no one used the term “global touring.” They sill went into all of the major countries of the world that were considered safe to go.

Those superstars were the exception. A traditional tour outside the U.S. would usually include a full-fledged U.K. tour, “some France, some Germany, a little bit of Switzerland,” according to the veteran agent. 

“The difference to where we are now is just enormous,” he said, “we can tour all the way down to the Eastern countries, including Turkey, Israel,” calling  them “proper dollar markets,” where artists got paid properly, and people read riders.

He said the world opened up gradually over time, rather than there being one moment that changed the game. Promoters like Marcel Avram, who toured the world with Michael Jackson twice and consulted with Warnock, paved the way.

Avram was “absolutely fearless” when dealing with the local partners, Warnock recalled.

Which prompted the question how local partners got vetted, when looking into touring new markets. Warnock said it was easy: “Pay the fucking money. 100% upfront, now. You got it, and we’ll work back from there.”

You don’t go into shady territories without getting everything paid upfront, and that includes Visas, he elaborated.

CAA’s Lanell Rumion confirmed that with some new markets, where trust and partnerships have yet to be established, business still got done the old-school way: no money upfront, no show.

Jackie Wilgar, SVP, marketing, U.K. Europe and international markets at Live Nation, said “the world has opened up. Live is a very important part in consumers’ lives across the world.”

This meant that fans, whether in China or the Middle East, shared certain commonalities, and it started with wanting to know about shows. 

However, just because something worked in North America, it didn’t necessarily work in other markets, which is why Wilgar emphasized the necessity to get to know everything about each market with the help of local experts.

“It’s the nuances that determine if a show’s going to be successful,” she said, adding, “understanding the fanbase and how to connect with them is key in every territory.” 

Wilgar works with teams across 52 countries on marketing strategies to increase artists’ ticket sales in those markets. The local experts helped customize marketing tools for the respective markets.

Wilgar said she doesn’t look at things like differing laws, compliance standards or currencies as challenges, but opportunities.  

The only real challenge, she said, was the perception people still had about some of these countries, which she hopes to overcome by educating the people about those countries. 

She also talked about the new European data laws intended to protect customers, introducing the necessity for consumers to give permission to be sent emails. It means that companies can’t just email ticket buyers that entered their email addresses during the purchase anymore. “It means we have to develop relationships with fans much more,” said Wilgar.

John Lickrish heads Flash Entertainment in Abu Dhabi. His main focus is to give artists and their teams the same experience they’d have touring anywhere else in the world, including regarding safety and security.

He said his company wanted to wipe out the trepidations his fellow panelists had mentioned about some new markets from day one. That’s what will make artists and promoters want to come.

Warnock said, nowadays, agents were much more involved in developing artist careers than labels. The agency business was no longer just about finding out where clients could sell a lot of tickets, but about accompanying them throughout the whole experience, in cooperation with the promoters. “Communication all year long needs to be on the money,” he said.

Scoleri wanted to know, how important data was in scoping out new territories to tour in. 

Rumion explained that there was an entire division at CAA dedicated to going through each content and telling agents where the music was buzzing.

She warned, however, that streaming numbers might indicate fan engagement, but that it was important to find out whether they were just listening passively. In many markets, people listen to music on free, ad-funded streaming services, but would never consider paying for a concert ticket.

She emphasized that streaming numbers could be completely disjointed from the actual ticket sales.

Warnock agreed: data helped, but wasn’t the be-all and end-all.

He acknowledged the role of multi-nationals like Live Nation in opening up the world for artists, but pointed out that he still placed great importance on the local promoters in each market, whether they were still independent or owned by a major.

The local experts are the ones that know about radio stations, newspapers and where to advertize a show. Warnock said he got frustrated with the multi-nationals whenever they displayed an attitude of one-size-fits-all.

To round out the panel, Scoleri wanted to know about sleeper markets, the next big touring destinations.

Warnock pointed towards Bangalore, India, which is about to receive its first proper indoor venue. “The population loves music, but it’s always been an outdoor market,” he explained, adding, “we have to fly over India anyway to get to Australia. We’re [currently] wasting a market.”

He said he wasn’t excited about China as other people were, saying it was a conservative, communist government that didn’t want anything foreign in the country.

Rumion said, “Latin America is most interesting to me,” pointing out that there was a middle class emerging that would increasingly seek out experiences.

To which Scoleri responded that it could replace the American middle class which was currently being eliminated.