Pollstar Live! 2026 Rainmaker: ‘The Kids Are Alright Featuring Peter Shapiro’

Peter Shapiro has been called a Renaissance man of the music industry but hearing him speak with Oak View Group Chief Content Director Ray Waddell during Pollstar Live! makes him seem a little more like the industry’s Swiss Army knife: armed with an arsenal of tools, ready for anything and especially handy if you have a screw loose.

The freewheeling conversation touched on Shapiro’s numerous career accomplishments – including New York’s Wetlands Preserve, his work with the Grateful Dead, LOCKN’ festival, Brooklyn Bowl, the historic Capitol Theatre, and his kid-friendly Rock and Roll Playhouse – and gave the audience a glimpse of the future including plans to open a Garcia’s music room in NYC. 

The session began at the beginning:

A New York State of Mind

Peter Shapiro: My blood DNA is Cleveland, so it’s good to have DNA, but I’m a city kid. I was born in New York City. We can get into it later, but I think it helps me be able to do what I do, that I’m born in those streets and I know those neighborhoods and the people, just from being there so long, that’s helpful.

Truckin’ with the Grateful Dead

I spent my whole life in New York except for four years in Chicago, Illinois. I went to college there. I had one of those sliding doors moments, and maybe some of you guys did. I went to a show that I think if I had not gone, I wouldn’t be sitting here with Ray Waddell. I wouldn’t. There’s no way. I was a film kid. I was into video in my latter high school years, junior, senior year. I went to a couple concerts, but I was more into video. 

I graduated high school in ‘91 so ’90, ’91. I actually had a public access TV show on Channel 35. Anyone from New York, it was not just Robin Byrd, but you could go and take your video tape of your show. The New York City municipality had the channel and it was open to the public and you could submit your programming to run. I made a 30-minute show about my high school sports teams.

I got one story to tell you. Once I lived through this, I thought I could do everything. I videotaped my high school basketball team. I was like the announcer. We filmed it. We had a camera this big. We were at an away game, and me and my friend were announcing. I went to Bill Rafferty broadcasting basketball camp. I was all into it. We were sitting there. It was an away game. I remember Poly Prep Brooklyn. The fans were on the other side. We were next to the benches. And at a time out, we heard this chant, “nerd, nerd.” We were just so exposed sitting there. Like the kids broadcasting in high school. We were the nerds. I’m used to dealing with problems but when you were being called nerd, chanted, and you can’t move, it’s still with me.

Insert rim shot and Ray Waddell:  There’s therapy for that.

Dead College Daze

The public access show probably helped me get into Northwestern’s Radio, TV, Film. I was studying film, playing Frisbee, experimenting, smoking stuff, hanging out. And one day, a friend said he wanted to go to a Grateful Dead show, Rosemont Horizon, March 1993.

I had been once before at Giants Stadium. I went, no big deal. I was not going into Dead World. …But I went to this Dead show at Rosemont Horizon. What happened was there was spoken word, right? Ken Nordine joined them that night unannounced. So, I was just at my first real Dead show, where I was kind of here in the sky.

Waddell: Trippin?

I was in the sky. …And I left the show. I don’t know what you did without a cell phone, but I ended up in the parking lot. It was snowing, and I was 20, and there were other 20-year-olds with the drum circle and the school bus, and they were not going back to Northwestern, they were going on the road, you know, seeking something. And I had never seen anything like that. 

I got back to college. I’m not sure how, because I lost my friends. We talked about being at doors. You know where you want to be first to run to the rail. I was at doors for once in my life, at the library. I stayed up all night and wanted to research what had been done about the Grateful Dead scene, documentary, because I was a film kid. And I convinced the kid who had the biggest, best video camera in Northwestern film school – he’s like 5’2” leprechaun red hair. He didn’t know what the Grateful Dead was, but I was like, “We should go on the road this summer with your video camera.”

It was 1993 and we went on tour and we made a documentary. The school, to their credit, gave me school credit. I got my parents to rent a van. One thing we learned, if you go on Dead tour to make a documentary, it’s probably not a good idea to rent a Ford Econoline 350 with no windows all white. We show up the first day to film at Auburn Hills in Detroit. You pull into the parking lot to do your documentary. They’re going “DEA, DEA.”

Waddell: That’s better than “nerd.”

I couldn’t get the Dead. It was all the things around the Dead. I got Ken Kesey, Tim Leary, Wavy Gravy, Rock Scully and the kids. I’ll tell you one of the stories. 

So, I’m making this film, a documentary about going on tour with the Grateful Dead. I need perspectives, and the best one will be Ken Kesey, right? So, I reach out. I get the number somehow. Ken’s household. His wife picks up. “Hey, I’m Pete Shapiro. I’m a student. I’m making a documentary about the Grateful Dead and the Deadheads today, what it means.” And she’s like, “That’s great.” And I’m like, “I’d love to have Ken interview.” She’s like, “We love you, but Ken’s not doing interviews right now.” So, I wait like a month. That was July, August, I call back. “Hi, it’s Pete Shapiro again. I’m the guy making this film and it turns out I’m gonna be in Oregon in a month by Eugene and I’d love to just stop by.” And she said, “Well, if you’re gonna be in Oregon, you should come by.” And the reality was, I had no plan to go to Oregon, but I went there and I got this great interview. And once, we got Kesey, we got Tim Leary, and we got Wavy and everyone from there.

Getting Kesey, the Grateful Grail

At first, he said, “You can meet me. Don’t bring your video camera.” We talked. We got to meet him. I packed a bowl. I had a bowl in the car. He said, “Go get the bowl.” Then he started talking about the Dead and then he said, “Go get your camera.” And yeah, I got one of the great interviews with Ken Kesey, and it was my 21st birthday. Just talking about it, that changed my life.

The Ripple Effect and The Wetlands Preserve

There was a great club called Wetlands in New York City. It was built on the spirit of the Dead. And the owner of Wetlands (Larry Bloch), after eight years, six, seven years of running it every day was fried and he was looking to pass it on. 

When (Jerry) Garcia passed away in August ‘95 I showed the film, and I went with a Dead cover band to colleges and the bass player in the cover band – Marty from Tiberia – said “Yo, dude, your film, YOU should be Larry Bloch. You should take over the Wetlands.”

Jerry had passed but all these kids, all these people that love going to Dead shows, they weren’t going anywhere. …And I just had a feeling that that jam scene at Wetlands would thrive. 

Waddell: Didn’t he give it to you?

Here’s what happened. I met Larry, and I showed him the film – it’s called And Miles To Go. It’s on YouTube if you want to watch it. And he said, “There’s this guy you’re gonna do this with. You’re gonna be the young, spirit, Dead guy. This guy’s got some money.” I’m not gonna say his name. He doesn’t know the story. This is a true story. This is pre internet. 

We ran an Environmental Center at Wetlands. It’s part of the deal. We continue to fund it for $100,000 a year – two, three employees. And the guy who was a bridge player wanted to get the environmental activists to like him. This is all true. He hired one of them to clean his apartment to give him some side money. The environmental activist goes into the new buyer of Wetlands house to just make side money cleaning. He sees a letter that the guy wrote – if it was email, we never would have known and my life would be different. 

He wrote a letter to his girlfriend in Europe, saying, “I’m gonna buy this club, and I’m agreeing to commit 100 grand a year to the Environmental Center. But once I get it up and running, I’m gonna wipe that and save the money.” 

The kid sees this, takes it, runs out and goes to Kinkos. There’s no cell phones for taking photos. Brings the letter back, puts it there, takes the Xerox, shows it to Larry Bloch and Larry Bloch called me and was like, “The bridge player’s out. You’re gonna do it yourself, and I’ll give it to you, and you’ll pay me monthly.”

Life After Wetlands 

After Wetlands I was able to do things like The Jammys. I made an IMAX film. I could spend time on things that didn’t really make money. …But I missed having a venue. When you have a venue, the best part is you can come up with an idea and just do it.

Waddell: And that was Brooklyn Bowl.

I had been in New Orleans a bunch and the idea of Brooklyn Bowl was that late night New Orleans, three in the morning, four in the morning, no windows in a place. That was always what was in my mind. 

We found a building. We walked the streets. I did myself and my partner, Charlie (Ryan). If you’re ever looking for a venue, rather than, you know, brokers and stuff, one key way we were able to get that warehouse – 61 Wythe Avenue, a 100-year-old iron works foundry – we found it. We did a smart move. There was a broker representing the building, and we made the broker, our broker, too. That’s a move I would recommend. She wanted us to get the deal so she got the full share. I swear that moved us in front of others.

Waddell: How many are there now? Nashville, Vegas, London, Philly, New York? So, it worked.

The idea was like, when you’re VIP on the lane, to have the best spot to watch the show. We use those screens. I’m a film guy, right? …We show live IMAG of the show or animations, and that visual is a big part of what we do, plus the food. We just tried to create a fun atmosphere. We’re not the No. 1 quiet listening room, you know, a jazz club. Although last week in Nashville, we shut the lanes off. We had David Rawlings and Gillian Welch. I was proud of that because if you can have those guys. And we had Bob Dylan play our Bowl again and that was a good moment. Sometimes you got to shut the bowling off.

Waddell: We’ve got 15 minutes left and we have to talk about 15 years. Talk about LOCKN’.

I got a call from Dave Frye, who was the Blues Traveler manager, and he’s got this land in central Virginia, the Blue Ridge Mountains in Arrington, 30 minutes outside Charlottesville. We all went to festivals in different environments. Some are in a parking lot, somewhere in the desert, but this one was in the Blue Ridge Mountains. The mountains are beautiful. And he just pitched me that, you know, it’s about six hours from Ohio, Georgia, New York, each of them. And you could build a regional thing, and we went for it. I was able to raise the money and we learned that festivals are, you know, magic.

Waddell: I remember driving out into the trees and I mean it was ‘Lord of the Flies’ out there. 

I saw this happen. I swear this is true. There was a far stage the first year. We didn’t even use it, it was like a mile and a half away. And Phil Lesh played a late-night set. There was no one there. I was standing there with Joe. I swear, when the music started playing, there was no one there and then all of a sudden, they just appeared. I swear, some came out of the ground.

Waddell: We need to talk about the Capitol Theatre, in Port Chester, New York, which is close to your heart these days.

It was a rock palace in ’70, ’71 and it only had an 11-month run. And what says it all is that the Dead played there 18 times in 11 months. You guys all know touring right for a band, a to play a room, 18 times – and they were playing everywhere – that’s what’s cool.

It makes a difference when you’re in a venue that has that kind of history. And you guys all know this. We all know you can feel the air is different. And it’s easier, I think, for the musicians to get to magic when they are in a place where magic’s already happened. 

Waddell: I got you here under the pretense of talking about the Rock and Roll Playhouse, and here we are with two minutes left.

Well, I had kids. When they’re 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years old, they’re not self-conscious. So they’ll groove out, they’ll rock out. And at one point we were going to build a venue for kids shows, specifically. And I realized, what the hell, I have a venue Saturday at noon and we’re doing nothing. And so we got local cover band and now we’ve done thousands of them. …Seeing someone watch their 3-year-old dance to “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” or “Three Little Birds,” it’s like the best moment is to see your kid at their first show. 

Waddell: What’s next?

We’re gonna build a Garcia’s on 27^th Street. I can take what I’ve learned which is to have the ground floor open for happy hour and late night for free – because so many venues are ticket only – and you’ve got shit on a quiet night. People can’t come and hang. So we build this one where there’ll be a hang. Then downstairs will be the ticketed room. So you guys, in the coming few months, if you go to New York City, just go to Garcia’s. That’s what’s coming next.