Executive Profile: Peter Schwartz

For years, Peter Schwartz has been touring some of the most recognizable names in urban music, like Big Boi, Method Man & Redman, De La Soul, Busta Rhymes, Wu Tang Clan and Rakim.

But he has raised his profile recently with the addition of hip-hop’s newest stars, Mac Miller and Wiz Khalifa. They have similar stories. Schwartz became aware of them before their records were out, but each had tremendous online followings, great music, great teams and the promise of long-term careers.

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One missing ingredient was touring – something that both artists were willing to do. Schwartz provided them with the old-fashioned strategy of building their shows from the ground up, one market at a time.

In the last two years, Miller and Khalifa have seen their shows grow from smaller venues to 5,000- to 10,000-seaters and now into amphitheaters this summer.

Schwartz, who has played drums in a band, has always been a fan of hip-hop and even had his own rap group in college, hoping to be the next Beastie Boys. But he owes his introduction to the business to U2 and a name synonymous with New York concert promotion.

“Growing up, I was very close friends with Ron Delsener’s daughter,” Schwartz said. “Her dad was very cool about getting tickets for me. I would buy tickets to whatever show I wanted and they’d give me an early entry pass, all-access or something special.”

In the early ’80s, when Delsener was promoting shows at Pier 84, a young U2 performed. Schwartz and Samantha Delsener went to the concert with Ron, which meant special access.

“We were backstage and literally met Bono in the trailer,” he said. “Larry Mullen was super cool. He walked me onto the stage, handed me a pair of his drumsticks after the concert when everyone was breaking down and was just randomly nice to me. It was one of those nights where I thought, ‘I love this! I want to be in this business!’”

While at the S.I. Newhouse School at Syracuse University, Schwartz interned at MTV and Nickelodeon. There were music video shoots, and Schwartz did production work that led him to New Generation Pictures. The company produced videos and Schwartz worked on shoots that included acts like Suicidal Tendencies and LL Cool J.

He still had his heart set on a career in live music and asked Delsener for a job. Ron didn’t have anything, but said Schwartz could drop his name over at the New York office of William Morris Agency. Sixteen interviews later, Schwartz was working in the mailroom and going through the coveted agent trainee program. That led him to seek the desk of the most powerful agent in urban music at the time, Cara Lewis. She called around to check him out, and that’s when his efforts at New Generation came in handy. When he was on the set with LL Cool J, he met Russell Simmons and Lyor Cohen, who are famously tight with Cara. He landed the desk.

The one day he knew he’d be working for her, he dressed more casually, a suit being the normal uniform of the mailroom. That’s when he was asked to pick up chairman Norman Brokaw and a guest from lunch at New York’s 21 Club.

“Fortunately, Jonny Podell was there at the time,” Schwartz said. “He said, ‘Come in my office.’ He had an extra blazer or two in his closet. I found a tie, put it together, and off I went. I wasn’t expecting Brooke Shields. They got in the back of the car. I was looking in the rearview mirror thinking, this is crazy! I was probably 22 at the time.”

Schwartz worked with Lewis for two years, booking dates, alerting her to potential clients and gaining a positive reputation himself. That’s when his career really started to take off.

So let’s start with your transition to The Agency Group. How did that happen?

They had just opened an office in the United States. They saw agencies opening offices in Europe and thought, “Why can’t we open one in America?” One of the managers that worked with Cara knew some people at TAG and suggested me. They called me to take a meeting. At the time I was looking at the competition and wasn’t thinking any other place felt right. A few agencies approached me but nothing seemed worth leaving for. At the time, Cara was mainly competing with Famous Artists and ICM. The Agency Group option came out of nowhere. Paul Boswell was an agent in the London office and he repped a major portion of Cara’s roster on the international side. So they came to me with this idea of becoming an agent and joining them.

So you were tasked to build up their urban music?

Not so specifically. They knew the genres I did, but it was more a question of helping build their roster and company in the U.S. We rep a lot of these rap artists in Europe and, who knows? Maybe they’ll make a move. And you can work with clients on an international level – if you sign them, they can work with Paul. It sounded promising.

It was a good salary boost, a chance to do my own thing. I came to The Agency Group without really a single client, so I started out hustling, booking more one-offs. Slowly, that changed. I started gravitating toward touring more. And separating myself from Cara. I started booking all kinds of things, from Run DMC to Doug E. Fresh.

The climate was different at the time; there were a lot more nightclubs. If you got play on radio, there were shows to be had, especially in the Tri-State area. I was quick to see what Hot 97 was playing and jump on those groups.

I wanted to look for groups I could tour in a more constructive manner. Ironically one of the first rappers I booked at TAG was Jay-Z. At $1,500 a show, could you imagine? I remember booking The Beatnuts and I worked with Tim Borror, when he was at another agency and he worked with Dog Eat Dog so we did a rock ‘n’ rap package together. We say it was one of the first true creative packages of rock and rap to tour. We put it on the road in a real grassroots, 300- to 500-cap style. It was a trend for the future.

Over time, people wanted to see what I could deliver. My roster started growing and The Agency Group was as well. We moved offices a couple of times in the same building. Then we opened the Toronto office, which brought in other agents that could work with me. Colin Lewis joined early on. He and I connected well and he started working with my artists, booking them in Canada.

But I don’t think it was even six months after I started when Paul Boswell left. And that was one of the bigger selling points for me at TAG, the relationship we would have and build. There I was without the support I expected. Meanwhile TAG grew from boutique agency of the year nominee to a mid-size company and now we are nominated annually for Pollstar’s Agency of the Year. There’s not too much story in the middle years. Just a lot of hard work, grinding. But my roster has continually grown and I became known for booking a lot of underground hip-hop and reggae as well, which was something Cara didn’t do but I liked personally.

While many on the rap side thought that is all I booked, I represented many of the best artists in Jamaica. My roster included Beenie Man, Buju Banton, Capleton, Gregory Isaacs, Luciano, Sizzla, Israel Vibration, Toots & The Maytals and countless others. I was booking a few hundred reggae shows per year, but my passion was always with hip-hop.

At the time I was booking The Beatnuts, Common (known then as Common Sense), M.O.P., X-Ecutioners, Rahzel, Kool Keith, Mixmaster Mike and many more. I did a lot of tour packaging. I had a series called “The Best of the Underground.” I did about four tours of that, packaging three or four different hip-hop groups in an effort to consolidate what I had. I did a lot of branding of packages and tried to keep my roster on the road all I could. Rappers like Rahzel and Del tha Funky Homosapien would do about 150 dates a year. I think a lot of the big radio guys didn’t even know who they were or how much they were touring. I had a lot of tours that were big in the venues but not so much on the mainstream radar.

Let’s talk Wiz. He and Mac Miller have similar stories, so let’s use him as an example. What was it like in the early days?

It definitely shows what can be done when you have the right ingredients: a great, socially connected artist who makes great music, a solid manager, a team of label, PR, business manager, tour team, etc… Mac, like Wiz, has had a quick rise. They had the same approach. Mac went from door deals to 4,000-cap sellouts in a matter of a 15-month plan so far. Wiz is up to 5,000 to 10,000 tickets.

An associate working on Wiz’s record told me about him, said I had to check him out, that he’s really making waves. He gave me the manager’s number.

I wasn’t familiar with Wiz. I started listening to his music online. MySpace was still very popular. It was completely blowing my mind that he could get 30,000, 40,000 MySpace plays a day, and it was increasing. That was when I got more invested in the internet. I thought there was something huge going on here even though I didn’t know him from the radio or the media.

I knew he had been out on a lot of spot dates, whether at frat houses or clubs, whoever wanted to book him. He was willing to work and mainly flying to every show. His tour manager, Will, was doing his booking and a good job of keeping him out there.

So we got introduced, took a meeting. That same night he was playing Highline Ballroom in New York City, and I found out the show was sold out. So I’m thinking, “He’s playing a 700-cap venue, sold out day of show!” I knew he had sold out the Grog Shop in Cleveland, 400 cap. These are all positive indicators. What does an agent want? Someone who has fans and can sell tickets.

At the meeting, we talked about the approach, which was, for me, the same one as for The Hieroglyphics in the early ’90s: Let’s get you out into these markets and see what you can do in places other than just Cleveland, New York and the other few hard-ticket stats I had. And he was very open to the plan – that he wasn’t going to fly anymore, that he had to get in a vehicle and we would route it on the ground. We were going to hit the road, sell tickets, sell merch and build his brand.

We had the meeting around Thanksgiving. I put together a plan to have him on the road starting January. I went ahead with getting the best offers I could and got him in the marketplace.

At the time, most promoters didn’t know who he was. Most of them did their quote-unquote hip-hop research, calling their local guy, and they’d come back to me saying, “Nope! He doesn’t know who this guy is either.” And I was extremely persistent to say, “I don’t care if they don’t know him! Ask someone else! Go to a high school, go to a college campus.”

I knew the college kids were into him. And meanwhile, at home on Thanksgiving break, I’m on the web every day, on MySpace, going, it’s 43,000 plays, it’s 45,000. I could not stop looking at it! So I was obviously confident that these fans were out there. People started making offers of all kinds and Wiz and management were flexible. “Get the best deal you can, even if it’s a good percentage deal at the door and we’ll go and show them!” That mentality is hard to find, especially in urban music. Most people just want the money. They don’t have the desire to do the work, craft a plan and grow it the right way.

What we proposed was to not put him on a full U.S. tour in one shot. Let’s not take on too much, too fast. So I proposed we do it in smaller legs, different parts of the country. You can have a little bit of a break in between. You can take it piece by piece.

Every single show sold out. Wiz has definitely focused on headlining. He said he wanted to headline and just keep headlining. That, to me, was great. I think we ended up with four different legs that were probably around 70 shows that covered all the parts of the country. Obviously, promoters were seeing the business and in some cases upgrading the venues, or wanting to add second shows.

And after the first run, it was, “We’re going to do it again. And we’re going to do it bigger.”

When “Black & Yellow” came out, people started calling, I’d quote them a price, and they’d say, “What are you talking about? The guy’s got one song.” I’d have to say, “No. You don’t realize he just sold out a 2,000-cap venue in your market.” Atlantic was moving into place and bringing national promoters to the tour. Everything had great timing. Last year he did 30 college campuses on the Green Carpet tour. Interestingly, Mac Miller supported most of that – a very young, getting-started Mac Miller. I think we sold out almost every show. And in the summer we did the Rolling Papers tour, which coincided with his album. We were averaging 4,000- to 6,000-cap venues. That tour was 50 cities and practically every show sold out.

And what about 2012?

We’re still conscious of ticket pricing. I don’t think I or his team just go for the money but look at making sure the shows are sold out and taking a lot of care with it.

He’s been doing a large number of isolated dates through the first half of the year, college shows, festivals. He played the Smoke Out with his new band. We’ve also been working with him internationally. James Rubin is the agent in our London office who represents the majority of my roster. He joined the company a few years ago and was excited to take on Wiz.

Interestingly, at first I had to make James a believer, just like the promoters. I kept telling him, “You’re going to blow out this venue even though he’s never been to London.” James said, “He’s never been here. People here are not as internet crazy here yet as Americans are.”

He put the May 2011 show on sale in December. The London show was booked in a 450-cap venue and I remember James calling me up one morning in December, waking me up to tell me the show had sold out. It had just gone on sale that day. I was screaming, “Yes!”

This summer Wiz is going on an 11-city amphitheatre tour with Mac Miller, which will feature Kendrick Lamar, Chiddy Bang, Schoolboy Q and Chevy Woods. We’re playing venues that go over 20,000 capacity. He’ll be going to Europe for three weeks of major festivals in June and July. He’s releasing his album Aug. 28, he’s touring Australia in September, then headlining a scaled-down U.S. arena tour in the fall.

What about the perception that hip-hop artists don’t tour? And what about when the news reports about any no-name hip-hop artist who doesn’t show up to a club? How much is this media perception versus reality?

You know, for me and my roster, I don’t see much of that at all. I don’t just book someone who is perceived to be big. And I don’t book someone just because they have a huge hit on the radio.

I’m really trying to find artists who want to work. They want to show up. They want to play. I think there are some artists who are more into grabbing the dough. I think there are all kinds of people out there doing God knows what, promoting shows for a quick way to make money.

I think some of the difference has to do with the venues. In my earlier days, when I was trying to hustle, sign groups and make money, I was booking into more nightclubs where the song was hot and someone wants to book it next Friday, and I’m chasing their deposit. Many times it’s not coming and I’m telling the artist it’s not happening, don’t go. A lot of fly-by-night craziness. There was more desire and desperation to work with situations that weren’t great.

Thankfully, after a long career, I don’t have to do that now. When Mac Miller, or Big K.R.I.T., or any of my artists say, “We want to go on the road,” I pick up the phone and I solicit offers, map out the tour and book it. I’m dealing with good, reliable buyers who will promote them properly and will have a good, successful show. Of course I’m looking for the artist to look good, sound good, be treated well, have a reliable deal and, of course, make the most money. And when I’m doing that, I don’t find I’m running into that fly-by-night trouble.

Of course artists get sick, buses break down, things happen. And I can really give a lot of credit to Mac and Wiz and many other artists who are smart and have smart managers.

What about urban artists making best friends their managers?

It is a touchy subject. I will say that I do think, in many cases, poor management can be one of the major downfalls for an urban artist. I do think there’s often trouble when it’s just a friend.

But sometimes the cousin or the friend turns out to be good. They learn the business and succeed. But I do think good managers, and great managers – and I have to say in the past few years I’ve been blessed with them – can really be an incredible asset to artist development. With Mac and Wiz I’m working with Benjy Grinberg who definitely knows what he wants and doesn’t want. But he’s open to a lot of ideas and direction, and gives me the opportunity to use my expertise.

I’ve found that, with some of the urban acts I’ve repped over the years or talked to about representation, they don’t always want the plan, the long-term goals. They want to make the most money fast and, if it’s not that, it’s not working. Money usually drives a lot of the thinking. I think if it’s done right, ultimately the artist is going to make a lot more money.

Artists who have been around for many years will call me up and say, “Hey, I want to go on tour.” But it’s hard to just convert from being a one-off artist to a hard-ticket touring artist because even though you’ve been around, most promoters want to know what history is there. So I encourage artists to think about the long-term early on. The big-money nightclubs versus touring can be very different worlds. I tend to stay toward the “game plan” types.

A$AP Rocky and Khalifa played both weekends of Coachella. Is it difficult to work around that?

It could be, I suppose. I think it probably varies in difficulty on where the artist is from and the size of the artist. A large artist on the bill with a huge guarantee might afford going back and forth for two weekends, or jet to some situation in between.

But it could be more of a struggle for smaller acts that don’t have that. If you live in California, it’s easy. You’re near home. If you’re a band from Europe, it’s more challenging. You have to find a way to keep busy in the middle when a festival has a 300-mile radius clause. If you were in a club situation, playing Palm Springs and Los Angeles isn’t a conflict.

I co-represent A$AP Rocky with Josh Dick, and we had him on Coachella, and we booked dates for him in between. A$AP, who’s from New York, played Phoenix, San Luis Obispo and San Francisco. Ultimately, Goldenvoice did a show or two of their own within the radius because they have the right to do that. And that helped. Paul Tollett is open to a show or two to help the artist out in different situations.

What about hip-hop artists and booking exclusivity?

Remember when we were talking about the different types of mentality? If you just want to play nightclubs and grab offers, and there really isn’t a plan to it, then it’s just dates and the manager waits on calls from various agents. But if you have a plan and specific goals, you won’t do it with four different agents. Align yourself with one particular person who will be consistent in the approach and the plan.

In my early days I had to work with a lot of artists who were non-exclusive and I found that people quote different prices. Not every agent has the same approach. Or maybe the manager doesn’t tell you he took a date in San Diego while you’re working on one. There’s a lack of continuity. On the other hand, if you have one person and you work well with that person, then you’re going to accomplish what you want regardless. No one agent is going to find every single offer there is but if you call me, the manager, the artist or the website, it all directs to the same place. And together we are organized.

We may not take that San Diego date because I’m pitching for a festival there two months later. I think the roster has been successful with being in the right place at the right time. I would tell any artist to pick one person and stick with him. There’s no doubt you’ll have more success than playing the field.

Who would be the next up-and-comer on your roster?

It’s a long list. Some are brand new and some have been developing. Big K.R.I.T. is doing great. Kendrick Lamar and A$AP Rocky are taking off huge. Also Schoolboy Q, and Macklemore & Ryan Lewis – that group is phenomenal. You just know they’re going places. Juicy J and Chevy Woods. I’m also still booking veterans of my roster like Immortal Technique and the Easy Star All-Stars.

Anything else?

I think it’s definitely worth mentioning Zach Quillen, who started as my assistant and has been working with me on these groups for some time, and my assistant, Jon Bricks, too. I have a good team around me. I enjoy global touring and working with James in London. We’re starting to book some acts where I’m not the agent in America but have been able to sign them internationally. We rep B.o.B., but not in America. We have a handful of festivals confirmed for 50 Cent in Europe. So we’re not only making a good impact here, we’re really showing we’re the right people to be with on the global side.

I’m lucky to have some great artists and great managers who’ll let me “strut my expertise” and trust me. It’s been a successful formula. I have to of course thank TAG for the years of support and my wife and kids for putting up with all my touring fun.