Yonder Mountain String Band’s Ben Kaufmann

Instead of a full-length album, the group decided to go for a four-track disc with each song on YMSB EP ’13 written and sung by a different member.  Produced by the band, the tracklist features Kaufmann’s “Straight Line” along with “Don’t Worry Happy Birthday” by banjoist Dave Johnston, “Rag Doll” by mandolin player Jeff Austin (and special guest songwriter Danny Barnes) and “All The Time” by guitarist Adam Aijala.

Kaufmann also told Pollstar that making an EP fell somewhere in the middle of releasing individual songs and recording albums, saying he felt he and his Yonder partners may have stumbled onto a new way of doing business.

Yonder Mountain String Band is 15 years old.  Where do you see the band today compared to the early years?

We filled ourselves up with gas way back when and we stomped on the pedal and we are just flying down the road. Out the window I see all sorts of stuff happening.  Right now we’re in a wave … the previous wave like this was the “O Brother, Where Art Thou?” wave.  Now we have this whole Mumford & Sons, Avett Brothers, Lumineers thing going on.  That’s another wave that’s sort of lifting all the boats. We’re lifted by it just like any [act] finding itself in the acoustic music world or folk music [world] or whatever.

But we continue to do what we do.  We certainly watch with interest at all of the young British people dressed nice and [putting] banjos in their band.  The new expression du jour is “a rising tide floats all boats.” 

So we’re watching this just as we watched the “O Brother, Where Art Thou?” thing where suddenly there was a wider interest in the sound of the banjo.  Or, if not a wider interest, then a greater tolerance in the pop community for the sound of the banjo, which is a wonderful thing.  Popular music used to have banjos all the time.  For us, we’re riding down the same roads, gigging at the same places.  There are more people coming to see us, which is awesome.  Life sort of continues as usual for us.  I mean that in the best of possible ways.  It’s a wonderful time to be playing music and to be doing what we’re doing.  I feel very fulfilled.  I feel that the available audience of people interested in what we’re doing continues to grow.  It’s being supported by all these external things that really have nothing to do with us. 

Like Mumford & Sons becoming as huge as they are.  Or if you look at the trickle-down from that, these other bands being sort of folksy and retro … and that’s cool.  I think, ultimately, it’s a bit faddish.  Probably, in the same way “O Brother ….” had its impact and the tide sort of went down, we’ll see the same thing. There will be actions and reactions.  It’s a huge coup to have a British band with a banjo in it winning Grammy awards and being the best band in the world for a year or two.

What can you tell us about YMSB EP ’13?

It’s been a long time since we released anything from the studio.  It represents a whole new way of doing business for us.  The reality is that trying to make a … true full-length album the way we want to make it is very expensive.  For one, to purchase ourselves the producers that we are talking about wanting to work with.  It’s all money we would make ourselves through touring. It’s sort of shocking math.  You should wear brown pants when you do it.

What we decided to do was to look for something different.  In my opinion, in this day and age it doesn’t matter if you make an album, a double-album or quadruple-album.  All that matters is that you have one song and you put it out.  Then you make another one and put it out. … Really, we should be doing that one song at a time and turning this stuff around as quickly as we can and still have it be of artistic value.  That’s the extreme. Somewhere to meet in the middle is the EP.

It just works so easily to get us into studios on the road.  It’s so nice because we get to record in all of these cool boutique studios that are all over the place.  We learned enough from our experiences with Tom Rothrock … Tim O’Brien [and] Sally Van Meter, … watching producers produce us.  [We said] “OK, I think we’re grownup enough to give this a shot ourselves.  So let’s take a year or a year and a half, let’s make a string of EPs.  Let’s produce them ourselves. Let’s be creative about it. We can do all sorts of different things.”

If what you’re producing is a four-song thing, just by the nature of the change of that format, there are so many things I can think of … that I want to do.  Yeah, I want to continue to make another couple of EPs where everyone writes and sings a song on it.  I think that’s just cool.  Then I want to do a four-song EP of all of Dave’s songs.  And one of all Adam’s songs, one of all Jeff’s songs and one that’s all me.

Regarding the EP; are most of the sales in downloads or in physical CDs?

I would have to check the numbers.  I’m going to disregard vinyl, which is a big seller. Vinyl is back in a big way for us.  But probably 50-50 downloads vs. physical product.  Producing physical CDs, to me …  are just a waste of resources. Ultimately we might be able to save people money.  Like, “You can have this for $7 or you can get it online for $3.”

I don’t want CDs anymore. I don’t ever have CDs around.  If I get a CD, I burn it on my computer, I get it on my iPod and then the CD goes away.

So if that’s the case, why are we making CDs anymore?  For people to throw them away?  They don’t recycle all that well. 

How far in advance does Yonder Mountain plan for? 

The way that it really works is you plan through death.  You plan through 100 years from now.  The way we operate is very much like, “This is what we’re doing. This is kind of what it’s going to look like. And this is what we’re going to be doing for the duration.” 

Yonder has always been a touring band and I think we should have no illusions that that is ever going to change.  Granted we would like to be on the road a little bit less than we are right now.  If that’s going to happen then that means you play less shows but that means you have to raise the ticket prices. It’s a slippery slope.  The whole deal is we’re planning on doing this forever.

Your big shows are booked a year in advance … [such as] certain excellent rooms in key markets.

Touring for 15 years, what did you see as one of the first signs of financial success?

The bank said, “Yes. We’ll give you the loan.” That was the first one.  I went, “Oh, my  God. I’m going to actually be able to afford a house.”

The best advice I was ever given is probably worth repeating here.  Said to me by a guy who was a part of the ’60s in San Francisco.  Saw some bands [succeed] and others crash and burn.  He saw some people make a ton of money and then 20 years later they have nothing, no car, no place to live, nothing.

He said, “Ben, you got to remember that the first priority is to get yourself a house … something you can afford and pay it off. Then, if everything goes to hell, you can teach bass lessons.” And that always stuck with me.

Yonder Mountain String Band is also involved with festivals like Harvest Festival and String Summit.  Does conducting the business of the band take up as much time as performing and recording?

It does. For some more than others.  The weight of the oversight of the business falls pretty squarely on Adam’s shoulders and Dave as well. Jeff and I … we’re different types of people.  Adam is the person I want on the wall, if that makes sense.  He’s the guy … he’s the rock.  Dave, he’s so smart, he needs to be involved in everything just so you have an input.

Jeff and I, we’re not wild cards, and not that we’re not capable of handling any business decision correctly, but … Adam’s on point.  There’s no one else that’s more appropriate for that.

During one of the Cardinals vs. Dodgers post-season games, the television announcer said the Dodgers’ pitcher had admitted he was nervous going into the game and wasn’t able to relax.  Does that happen for musicians as well?

Yeah.  With the case of the pitcher it’s just him.  He’s going, “I couldn’t relax and therefore I couldn’t throw the ball I needed to throw.”  It happens in the band but it’s not necessarily the case that everybody is feeling that.  Getting too up in our heads about something … the way I look at it is you can’t put too much pressure on yourself for any one gig. If you do, then you’re going to go out and have a stiff performance.

Years ago, probably more than 10 years ago, I remember standing on stage in front of 50,000-plus people and embarrassing myself by forgetting the lyrics to a song that I wrote and sort of forgetting how the chords went.  I’m sure I had all the right chords correct, I just wasn’t playing them in the right order.  And it was a whole embarrassing thing. I was horrified in the moment.  I was going, “Oh, my God.  This is the worst thing ever.  I feel so awful.”

Then I looked out and I realized that everybody I could see out in the front, they were all singing the words that I had forgotten. They were all smiling. And I went, “Oh, wait a second. I’ve been thinking of this wrong.  These people, they love me and they like what I’m doing and they’re here to support me. … They got my back.”

What’s the best advice you could give someone who’s beginning to perform professionally?

First thing, hold on to self-confidence.  But learn there is a fine line between arrogance and self-confidence.  Nobody likes to be around a young whippersnapper who thinks the world of himself for the wrong reasons.  And we’ve run into that, too, because we’ve been guilty of that, maybe getting a little too big for our britches … especially way back in the day when we were first starting to achieve some success. 

So, A, be confident in yourself.  The only thing I can relate to is my own experience.  I knew that I would be a musician.  I’ve known it since forever.  It’s the only thing I ever wanted to do and I dreamt about it with all of my guts, all throughout my childhood it was what I wanted to do. I didn’t know bluegrass, I didn’t know it would be bluegrass.  I just knew music, playing the bass, singing and performing for people.  I held on to it and I never let that dream go because it was that important to me.

Then you got to work, work and work. You have to survive those things you can’t plan for.  Those situations where you take a step to the right and you get run over by a car, but you take a step to the left instead and you’re safe.  And you navigate so many of those things on the road.  Maybe it’s karma, maybe it’s good luck, maybe it’s dumb luck. 

Maybe another thing, if you’re going to be performing with a group of people, find those people to be inspiring. Hopefully, people you get along with who are going to help [you] go a long way. But it’s not essential.  Some of the best musical relationships of all time have been sort of combative, I think.  Sometimes that’s exactly what you need to generate the spark. Maybe that’s the thing.  Never break up a band today that you can put off breaking up until tomorrow.

Yonder Mountain String Band’s upcoming shows:

Oct. 29 – Brooklyn, N.Y., Brooklyn Bowl
Oct. 30 – Brooklyn, N.Y., Brooklyn Bowl
Oct. 31 – Philadelphia, Pa., Theatre Of The Living Arts,
Nov. 1 – Boston, Mass., House Of Blues Boston
Nov. 2 – Portland, Maine, State Theatre
Dec. 11 – Cancun, Mexico, Now Sapphire Resort  (“Strings & Sol”)
Dec. 12 – Cancun, Mexico, Now Sapphire Resort  (“Strings & Sol”)
Dec. 13 – Cancun, Mexico, Now Sapphire Resort  (“Strings & Sol”)
Dec. 14 – Cancun, Mexico, Now Sapphire Resort  (“Strings & Sol”)
Dec. 15 – Cancun, Mexico, Now Sapphire Resort  (“Strings & Sol”)
Dec. 27 – Boulder, Colo., Boulder Theater
Dec, 28 – Boulder, Colo., Boulder Theater
Dec. 29 – Boulder, Colo., Boulder Theater
Dec. 30 — Boulder, Colo., Boulder Theater (Flood Victims Benefit)
Dec. 31 – Boulder, Colo., Boulder Theater 

Please visit YonderMountain.com for more information.