THINK! Presented by The Entertainment Institute

4FINI’s Kevin Lyman and The Entertainment Institute’s Jen Kellogg say you need to THINK entrepreneurially, too.

Lyman, who’s managed to keep reinventing the annual Warped Tour trek after some 20 years, and Kellogg, a Warped tour accountant, formed TEI to teach aspiring concert entrepreneurs how to develop the tools as well as ideas to be successful – and remain relevant in times of rapid change.

Artists can also learn to supplement their incomes as well as give back to audiences and communities. Lyman pointed to the rapidly expanding U.S. festival market as one in need of entrepreneurial ideas, given the college students spending student loan checks on tickets can have but a short festival shelf life before the real world – including student loan debt and meager paychecks – kicks in.

“Everyone has an idea for a three-day festival,” Lyman said. “They’re popping up everywhere; you can order your Ferris wheel and other typical stuff. But the brokest people in America are 24-28, in debt out of college, but brought up on festival culture,” Lyman said. “Now, we’re seeing the one-day niche festival, and they’re trying to buy talent. Festivals that have been around 25 years are having trouble buying talent because of the growth of festivals. They’re like Walmart. It’s up to you to provide something that the generics don’t. You have to come up with a good, unique idea.”

Kellogg stresses that “you need to understand your market and your customers; know how they are buying and why they are buying, because the market is saturated.” Lyman has responded to market changes in the way he books and produces the Warped music and lifestyle festival over the years.

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The average audience age has dropped. The punks that used to come to Warped shows 20 years ago are now coming back with their kids – and Lyman responded with a “parents get in free” program that has paid off, literally.

“The ages have dropped down to 12-13,” Lyman said. “My competition was One Direction. We went to bringing parents in free, because we want these kids to support the bands at Warped Tour earlier. If you let the parents in free, they save on the ticket and buy the $12 beer and more merch. All those sales went up.”

Kellogg added that parents can see it’s a great experience and a good environment for their kids to be in. In terms of knowing your audience, Lyman pointed to one pitfall – that of personal taste.

“I love punk,” Lyman said. “I have to give up my personal tastes, because you can’t have a bunch of 49-year-olds to see Bad Religion mixed with the crowd for Pierce The Veil. Bad Religion, NOFX were your heroes, but you have to reconnect with younger fans. We brought Bad Religion to a Warped show and once they walked off the stage they knew they should have done the whole tour, to develop younger fans.”

It’s also important to know your promoter, understand your market and watch your funding and budget. Lyman pointed to Sean White’s “Air + Style” festival taking place the same weekend in Los Angeles as an example of what not to do.

“He’s going to do this snowboarding thing, with Tiesto and Portugal. The Man. He’s going to lose $4 million. There’s a press problem, because there’s a drought going on in Southern California and now there’s all these protests. Not one of his advisers sat him down and said, ‘Don’t do a snowboard event. Don’t do a weird hipster thing.’ There’s a lot of weird money coming into the business,” Lyman said.

Coachella and Bonnaroo music festivals are two examples of successful brand marketing, and present a consistent and representative message that doesn’t confuse their audiences. People may complain about the lineups every year – it’s practically a pastime – but never enough to stay away.

But of the many pieces of advice served by Lyman and Kellogg, perhaps the most interesting was: “Hear the beats between the notes.”

“Don’t hear things the same way everyone else does,” Lyman said. “Learn from your audience. I have been able to survive, and I haven’t had to sell my company to anybody else. The coolest thing is we get to work around music. We forget what the show’s about. Try to go to a show you have no vested interest in.

“I base my life on South By Southwest. I went the first couple of years to just enjoy music. I quit going for a few years, but when I went back I had my hustle on. Last year, I didn’t schedule one thing. Not one meeting. It was awesome, just checking out music. But it was weird – like I suddenly had more than two minutes for people. We need to start doing that more in the business. We fell in love with music. It’s in our hearts,” Lyman said.

“Nurturing relationships is important in the long run, in building a career and in building life. You have have to step back and take the time to connect with people,” Kellogg added.