Festival Industry Survey: Charles Attal, Ashley Capps, Jennifer Justice, John Reese & More Weigh In On The Changing Festival Market

1) What do you think was the 2018 festival season’s biggest success or successes and why?  

Selfishly, and although we produce both of them, I think Lost Lands and Ohana Festival are the most immersive, well-niched and curated large/medium scale festivals that I have attended or produced. I think there are many amazing events, but of course you always want things that you work on to be well respected. 

Everyone wants to produce festivals. Dreams are easy, but the execution is the hard part. I cannot speak for other production companies, but for us weather and talent fees are the two most challenging issues.

Lost Lands, Ohana and Coachella were my favorite festivals in 2018. 

We strive to create immersive events that speak to a particular audience. In 2019 we will produce 35 major destination and touring events that all are niched within a specific genre or lifestyle. Our goal is to give attendees a getaway from normal life, and an all day experience. The artists are ALWAYS the key and then we add attractions that perfectly complement the music. 

A lot of events are going to have difficulties in the years to come unless they are entrenched, particularly because of all of the cancellations. As a production company, you have to have a large staff, and that is very expensive. Coupled with the heightened awareness of public safety concerns, it is not a game for people who don’t know what they are doing. Then you add all the other variables, and it really is a difficult proposition to reach any large-scale success. Plus you have to have deep pockets.

1) What do you think was the 2018 festival season’s biggest success or successes and why?

I think we’ve continued to see the development of artist curated festivals and the success that they can have. In general, we have so many festivals in the marketplace and when we’re honest with ourselves we know that it is the artists that make the festival – that will never change. Can we establish great brands that people trust? Sure, but they trust us to deliver the right artists – the people they want to see. When an artist connects with any of us culturally, we continue to trust and invest in the art and the message. We’ve been given the opportunity of partnering with J. Cole & Travis Scott on their respective festivals. Dreamville in Raleigh, N.C. is an experience curated by J. Cole while Astroworld, in Houston, is the vision of Travis Scott. Both of these festivals have almost sold out without the announcement of a lineup. Both of them are great examples of what can happen when music truly connects with the people.

Alright . . . I apologize in advance for my very long answer here . . . But this is something you hear people talk about a lot . . .  It’s undeniable that there are real issues here for festivals . . . But I think it’s important for us to consider all of the factors. Are expenses skyrocketing? Yes. Artist fees included? Yes. Can it make it harder for festivals to exist in the marketplace? Yes. But we have to look at the why . . . There are so many opportunities for artists and fans alike. You have more concerts than ever, including great amphitheater and arena tours which have a stacked bill of talent. To some degree, it’s simply the result of logistical challenges. When an artist or band is on tour they’re carrying their crew and gear and are on buses and they’re coming with support who do the same. It makes it feasible for the artists to save expenses, which allows the promoter to price the ticket more affordably. The compensation is the byproduct of ticket price and tickets sold. So as a fan you can go to a multiple of concerts, for the price of one festival pass, and as an artist you can play multiple concerts within the same general territory.

Now festivals, because of their radius clauses and traffic in the marketplace, are asking an act to skip multiple markets (refrain from doing shows in those markets for a predetermined amount of time) and also asking them (most of the time) to fly in and pay the crew as a one-off which is usually one week’s pay . . . an artist loses a significant amount of revenue and has increased expenses. The festival promoter will always be frustrated when they see how much a one-off is versus a routed date, but it’s important to know the context. It does cost the artist more. 

However, because there are only so many weekends in the year and so many festivals – the reality is that the calendar is filled by dates with the biggest offers. We can’t get mad at that. The issue is that when promoters (like us and many others) have smaller budgets and cheaper ticket prices and smaller markets, their offers are expected to be the same because they are competing for the same dates in the calendar year. Then it’s further exacerbated by the fact that there are many festivals within the same radius under the same circumstances which then forces the artist to pick between the two, and the better budget usually gets the nod. It’s becoming very challenging for festival promoters because they’re competing with the regional concert marketplace, other festivals, and their expenses which require higher ticket prices that make it even harder to exist. The big festivals with established brands and larger markets have the ability to secure sponsorship dollars and sell tickets at ticket prices that allow revenue that justify the expenses. When festival fees are established, an artist is paid X fee, then most typically it is the expectation for the rest of the marketplace to pay the established fee.

The only thing we can ask for is that artists work with festivals when they’re able to and evaluate them based on marketplace and ticket price when they consider a festival offer. Something has to give – either promoters need to do a better job of lining up festival plays with touring (something we’re looking to do) or they need to be OK waiving radius . . . When an artist does their own concert, we have a much better idea of their “hard ticket value” which is an important factor for a promoter when booking an artist. Often times agents and managers like to point to streaming, or digital engagement, or record spins . . . Those all play a role but at the end of the day the most critical factor is simple . . . Do the fans pay to get a ticket to come and see the live show? If they do, and they will bring people to the festival, they should be paid accordingly. If the artist does a hard ticket play in the market, and it doesn’t do as well, it should be considered when giving a “quote” for their festival fee. When promoters get frustrated – and it’s completely justifiable because there is no such thing as an irrational promoter – is when agents say “this is my fee because people will pay it”. That’s not a partnership. You want us to book the baby acts, help develop them, but then attempt to charge some X fee because someone who just launched a festival in some market paid it, and now that’s what we’re supposed to pay? Oh, we get it, it’s because you stream well. But . . . unfortunately we’re in the business of selling tickets and thus, here we are. We need acts that bring the people out, but we need to be able to have enough revenue to offset these expenses. When acts that are worth 500 tickets are asking for money that reflects being worth 3,000 tickets . . . that’s a problem. The issue is that for the most part, if one agent doesn’t get you the desired fee, someone else will . . . and that puts them in a position where they’re beholden to the artist/manager to get them their desired fee, regardless of whether or not it’s justified numerically. The best agents have the faith and trust of their client, and they run point. When they do, and they’re strategic, they never have to worry about losing an act.

Now, in an ideal world the artist takes the position that they got to do their own concert, and now they get to do the festival play in addition, which takes more revenue out of the market for them and allows the promoter to save slightly in fees because they’re waiving their radius. Furthermore, their fee is justified as a result of proven ticket sales, and/or, in the event of a smaller market, you’re taking a festival at a smaller fee because it’s a market that would typically be skipped when on tour. Or, if we’re getting really precise, we’re lining up tertiary market festival opportunities in the midst of routed tours, giving artists the opportunity to get additional revenue and allowing smaller festivals the ability to book artists they wouldn’t normally be able to afford on a one-off basis . . . Or, in the event of one of the larger and tier A festivals – you’re taking into account the tremendous marketing power that it can have, whether it be to promote your current record, or do something on the off cycle after you’ve done your concert in the marketplace.

Again, these are just my thoughts, but overall . . . I think the same way that promoters and festivals are falling off, I think we’re beginning to see that happen to the artists, agents and managers that don’t play the long game or care about both sides. Ideally, we’re all going to be here a long time and we have to make sure everyone wins. Inherently there’s conflict when the more money they make means the less money we make, but there’s plenty of opportunity to find a middle ground. The most successful examples have done exactly that.

I don’t think one side is to blame here. I think there’s an adjustment which needs to be made, which is why you’re seeing festivals beginning to go away . . . There are many smart agents and smart managers who will work with us to figure out the best way we can to grow the business in a mutually beneficial manner. Artists should be paid what they’re worth. Nobody should be underpaid, but nobody should be put in a position where they can’t afford to pay their bills. We want everyone to win. ScoreMore wouldn’t be here if there weren’t people that were supportive of our business model, so there are plenty of good examples here . . . There just happen to be some bad ones, too.

3) What was your favorite festival you attended this year and why?

So many great festivals. I have always admired the work of C3, the hometown heroes… I’m also so happy to see the Rolling Loud guys winning. Both are great examples of once-upon-a-time underdogs earning their success.  

5) What trends or changes do you predict for festivals in 2019?

More Spanish speaking festivals. More fusion of different cultures on mainstream festivals. More artist curated festivals. The growth of health and wellness events. ScoreMore will find opportunities to create events that service different markets with different experiences that the people can appreciate. We’re excited for our partnership with Live Nation and the immense opportunities that it presents.

Female Headliners.  Beyonce, Janet Jackson, Florence + The Machine, Amy Schumer (In the case of our comedy festival Clusterfest) – proving further that they can in fact draw a crowd. As festival owners, at our core is building community and it’s very important that the diversity of the fans is represented on the stage and in the content. We have a long way to go but I am hopeful it is the beginning of a long lasting and much needed change.

Cancellations mostly due to festival glut.  Festivals need to become more attuned to what the fan wants and how they want it. They must constantly evolve in order to stay relevant. We are in the time of model disruption in all areas of our life – how we travel, where we live, our office spaces, and festivals need to meet the demand of that new fan. Instead of being a lot to many, you have to be something specific to fewer people. 

3) What was your favorite festival you attended this year and why? 

I love our comedy music comedy festival, Clusterfest.  It’s a new take on a comedy festival all taking place in one venue, and has more variety with experiential pop-ups like Always Sunny in Philadelphia, or Seinfeld last year.  Includes live podcasts, great music, interviews with comedians (Bill Burr interviewed Jerry Seinfeld last year), and amazing stand-up that not only the fans but other comedians can enjoy since they are all in one spot.  

As I alluded to above, I think curation is key including artist-led curation. We started the Super Jam at Bonnaroo years ago – this year was a tribute to Tom Petty and both the artists and the fans love it. Everyone coming together as a community with a common theme is important. We need more creativity in the festivals – more attention to detail and up-leveling the experiences outside of music in an authentic way.  

I think we are going to see a meeting in the middle of the new but already tired pop-up experience and the festival. The location based themed experiences will exist but they will be more than just an opportunity to flood instagram and focused more on community.     

I really enjoyed Outside Lands this year.  Another Planet’s continued focus on high quality food, beverage and a diverse lineup make this festival’s appeal timeless. They make minor adjustments every year to improve the experience, often in subtle but noticeable and creative ways.  

While the top line of many festival bills is what people talk about, I think loyal fans are developed by a deep attention to the entire experience.  For the top festivals, every single detail is thought through and refined and improved as years pass. The best festivals have a culture unto themselves that is carefully nurtured like a meal at a Michelin star restaurant.

What was the biggest festival successes in 2018? Every independent festival that survived through 2018 to live and fight another day.

I can’t speak for everyone but slow ticket sales are a big challenge when trying to produce a festival independently. When you’re not bankrolled by a massive corporation you rely on ticket sales to cash-flow the fest, and when sales are slow it makes things very difficult. From what I’ve seen and heard it seems like slow ticket sales were pretty rampant through the festival community this year.

Lost Lands, everything about that festival is just insane. From the production to the open fire bbq pit backstage. Absolutely insane.

Personally I think diverse lineups, cool brands and community. If you can create a community around your festival then your fans will be the best marketers you could ever have. Festivals with communities built around them bring something to the table that money cant buy. 

More fests curated to niche demographics, seems to me that the fests that cater to 10-15k people and target a specific demo are the ones that win, unlike the ones that are going for everyone and anyone.