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Video Interview With Leon Ramakers On 50 Years Of Mojo Concerts & More
– Leon Ramakers
The long time director of Mojo Concerts
Pollstar sat down with Leon Ramakers, the long-time director of Dutch promoter Mojo Concerts, which celebrated its 50th anniversary at the end of 2018.
Alongside company founder Berry Visser, Ramakers built Mojo into Holland’s biggest concert and festival promoter. Ramakers stepped down as director years ago but remains involved with the company and is still one of its major programmers. We met him at Eurosonic Noorderslag 2019 to talk about Mojo’s anniversary, the state of live entertainment and more.
Ramakers joined Mojo about a year after its foundation by Visser in 1986. “I was the gofer for Berry. It took a while before we became partners,” he remembers.
“From the first smell I got of this business, I knew, ‘this is it’. I felt like a fish in the water, and I thought: ‘I have to take every chance to make this a success’.”
Gijsbert Hanekroot/Redferns – Grace Slick from Jefferson Airplane poses at Kralingen Festival in 1970
Many boys in those days were in love with the singer. Ramakers was one of them
The first event Ramakers worked on was the Holland Pop Festival in 1970. “It was like a whole new world opened up for me. I mean three days of love and peace, as it was in those days. And all these bands, which were my bands: The Byrds, Pink Floyd, Jefferson Airplane. I was in love with Grace Slick, like so many other boys,” he recalled.
Ramakers said luck was a major factor in the early days of Mojo. “There have been at least ten times in my career, in Mojo’s history, where the coin could have flipped over to the wrong side. And it always flipped over to the right side. A bunch of times we’ve been so close to the end that you thought, ‘Oh my god. This is it’. But there was always something that reduced us.”
The opening Ahoy Arena in Rotterdam in the early 70s certainly helped. “All of a sudden we did three Pink Floyds, three Eagles, two Supertramps, Bob Marley, Lou Reed, you name them, and it was like: ‘Wow, what’s happening here?’,” he said.
Other business milestones included the launch of Lowlands Festival in 1993, the acquisition of North Sea Jazz Festival, the opening of Heineken Music Hall, now ASAF Live, in 2001.
“The fact that we were sold to SFX [in 1999], of course, was a highlight, or a low, whatever you want to call it,” said Ramakers, who always says he had three reasons to sell. “First of all, I can’t deny, the money was crazy. The second thing was, SFX was buying everybody, and I didn’t want to become like – you know Asterix and Obelix – this little village among a Roman Empire. I though I was going to be crushed.
“And thirdly, I thought that we could benefit from the creativity of all our global partners. Well, the latter [didn’t happen], because we were, in all modesty, doing festivals and thinking about building venues, and no one else was in those days.”
Being a part of the “Roman Empire” for the past 20 years certainly didn’t hurt. In 2019, business is “vibrant. We sold more tickets than ever last year, and this year is going to be, most likely, a record breaking year for Mojo again, so I can’t see any complaints. Apart from the acts being too expensive,” Ramakers added half-jokingly.
Ramakers stepped down as director of Mojo several years ago. He has no problem admitting that his capacity to judge the latest music trends – “your biggest asset” as a promoter – has left him. “Ten years ago, nobody thought of hip hop. Now, if you don’t program hip hop there’s something wrong in your programming. You have to surround yourself with younger people that know what the next generation is up to. There’s exceptions to every rule, but don’t trust people of my age that say they understand hip hop or dance. There’s always one or two exceptions somewhere in the world, but the vast majority of those people that say, ‘oh, I still understand…’, don’t believe them. They don’t.”
Paul Bergen/Redferns – Lowlands Festival 2018
Pharrell Williams of N.E.R.D. having a blast
Check out the transcript of the full interview with Leon Ramakers below. In it, he talks about the first ticket he ever bought, his favorite concert memories and the one decision he wished he would have made differently in hindsight.
Mr. Ramakers, how would you describe the state of live entertainment in 2019?
Vibrant. We sold more tickets than ever last year, and this year is going to be, most likely, a record breaking year for Mojo again, so I can’t see any complaints.
Apart from the acts being too expensive. But we’re doing very well.
Are ticket prices too high?
If it was up to me, the ticket price wouldn’t be that high, pretty obviously. But we live in a capitalist society, and if we sell out in five minutes, many times we get remarks from the agents and promoters: “Told you, you could’ve charged more.”
So who’s right and who’s wrong? I don’t know. As long as people want to pay it, there’s something done well.
But sometimes you’re being forced to charge ticket prices which I think [are too high]. But then again, time after time it’s been proven that people want to pay it, so what can I say?
All these complaints, you can look at it from two sides.
Is 2019 the 50th or 51st year of Mojo?
The guy who founded it, Berry Visser, who became my partner, or I became his, he tried to do shows in 1968, but actually the first show was in 1969. So, it’s debatable. Officially, it’s from 68.
How long after that did you join the company?
Like a year or a year-and-a-half, something like that. I was the gofer for Berry. It took a while before we became partners. Originally I was just a gofer, that’s how I got into this business.
What were the reasons you wanted to work in this business?
First of all, I hated my studies. I was at university and hated it. So I embraced any excuse for not having to study.
From the first minute, the first smell I got of this business, I knew, ‘this is it’. I felt like a fish in the water, and I thought: ‘I have to take every chance to make this a success.
What was the first event you worked on?
I assisted Berry when we did the [Holland Pop] festival in 1970. It was like a whole new world opened up for me. I mean three days of love and peace, as it was in those days. It was the year after Woodstock.
And all these bands, which were my bands: The Byrds, Pink Floyd, Jefferson Airplane. I was in love with Grace Slick, like so many other boys in those days.
I loved every inch of it, and I didn’t even think that this would become my world, but I’m sure I must have thought, ‘if only this could become my world’.
What were milestones that shaped Mojo Concerts over the past 50 years?
Well, first of all the fact that we have been so lucky, because there have been at least ten times in my career, in Mojo’s history, where the coin could have flipped over the wrong side. And it always flipped over to the right side.
A bunch of times we’ve been so close to the end that you thought, “Oh my god. This is it.” But there was always something that reduced us.
Some highlights: when we realised it was becoming a real business, which was when the big arena in Holland in those days, the Ahoy [Arena] in Rotterdam, [also known as the Sportpaleis, opened]. Before that you maybe did one or two shows a year at the Ahoy, and the rest was clubs or 2,000-seaters, that was it.
And all of a sudden we did three Pink Floyds, three Eagles, two Supertramps, Bob Marley, Lou Reed, you name them, and it was like: “Wow, what’s happening here?”
The other thing, of course, is our first stadium show, which was Dylan in ’78. Then The Rolling Stones wanted to open their European tour with us in ’82.
The fact that we started Lowlands, the fact that we bought North Sea Jazz Festival, the opening of our first venue, the Heineken Music Hall, now ASAF Live, the fact that we were sold to SFX [in 1999], of course, was a highlight, or a low, whatever you want to call it. And the [opening of] Ziggo Dome was obviously something extraordinary.
Bart Heemskerk – Lowlands Festival 2018
A large crowd gathers at the Alpha stage
Why did you sell to SFX?
I always say I had three reasons. First of all, I can’t deny, the money was crazy. The second thing was, SFX was buying everybody, and I didn’t want to become like – you know Asterix and Obelix – this little village among a Roman Empire. I though I was going to be crushed.
And thirdly, I thought that we could benefit from the creativity of all our global partners. Well, the latter [didn’t happen], because we were, in all modesty, doing festivals and thinking about building venues, and no one else was in those days.
Do you expect major disruptions of the live business in the next 50 years?
There’s no disruptiveness to the best of my knowledge, because it’s still: at eight o’clock somebody turns down the lights, and there’s somebody on the stage, and there’s a bunch of people in front of the stage, and that interaction is still the very same thing now.
It’s the same as it was 50 years ago, and while you shouldn’t say that things are never going to change, I don’t see how that basic fact of our industry can be disrupted. I don’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see it.
What are the challenges a promoter faces in 2019?
As a promoter, your biggest asset is your capacity to judge how big an act is, how many people are going to show up and what you can charge. And if you have that right most of the time, at least your concerts do well.
Then you have to be able to program your festivals, and to sense what people want. There’s always [a younger generation coming up]. Ten years ago, nobody thought of hip hop. Now, if you don’t program hip hop there’s something wrong in your programming.
So you have to surround yourself with younger people that know what the next generation is up to. There’s exceptions to every rule, but don’t trust people of my age that say they understand hip hop or dance. There’s always one or two exceptions somewhere in the world, but the vast majority of those people that say, “oh, I still understand…”, don’t believe them. They don’t.
Do you remember the first ticket you ever bought?
Yes, it was for a show of a local act. Q65 they were called. I was like: wow!
Do you remember the venue?
Oh yeah, of course. It was in Maastricht, where I went to school. There was a little hill, and on the hill was an old fortress, called Fortress St. Peter. That was my first show I ever bought a ticket for.
Is there anything you know now, that you wish you had known 50 years ago?
Yes. Not that I’m unhappy about my financial situation, but I did not see ticketing. I thought that ticketing was going to be something technical, so we just made a deal with the post offices, [saying]: “Okay, you set up the technology, you make the software, and you’re going to sell the tickets.”
I should have done it myself and then, later on, I should have sold my ticketing company to god knows whom and made as much money as people made from selling their ticketing companies. I didn’t see that at the time.
Do you play and instrument?
No. You don’t have to worry.
Do you have a favorite live act of all times?
A bunch. I’m a Ry Cooder fan, I love the music of Ry Cooder, certainly in the older days.
And, it’s pretty obvious you might say, but we did a show with David Bowie in ’77 or so, where he was dressed completely in blue, the hardest blue you can think of, and the lighting was only fluorescence. That was one of the most magical shows I’ve ever seen in my entire life. So simple, but so in your face, it was incredible.
Please pick one: the Stones or the Beatles?
Stones.
Promoting indoors or outdoors?
I have no real preference. Outdoor is more exciting. Outdoor.
Coffee or tea?
Oh, definitely coffee.
Festivals or concerts?
Festivals.
Arena or club?
Still arena.
It seems like Holland has more festivals than any other country in Europe…
I think Switzerland does even better. I think Switzerland has more big festivals. We might have all these smaller things, but Switzerland has got, per capita, I think, the most festivals.
What advice do you have for young people, who want to become a promoter?
Don’t do it. It’s about so much money these days. And if your want to start from scratch…
The people that really made it are the people that came with the flow of new music. Like the people who became dance promoters or now hip hop promoters. That’s where you have a chance.
Obviously there’s always some people that are so bright and so fantastic that they’ll make it anyway.