IEBA DAY 3: Agents, Hip-Hop And National Touring Power Panels

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Live Nations Sally Williams leads the Agents Power Panel on the third day of IEBA in Nashville.

Agents Power Panel

Wearing a flame red leather skirt, Live Nation’s Sally Williams brought a diverse panel of agents – from the worlds of podcast, breaking superstars and Latin artists – to consider the biggest issues facing each. From figuring out who to sign and what kinds of teams to work with, keeping it fresh and challenges in each domain, Paradigm’s Sara Bollwinkel, CAA’s Bruno del Granado, WME’s Matthew Morgan, UTA’s podcast team of Joe Fucigna and Phil Battiato and comedy agent Nick Nuciforo considered the similarities and divergences of each’s realm.

For Bollwinkel, every bit the agent who nurtured a young Billie Eillish in her red leopard print dress, biker jacket and Cruella white hair stripe, passion is the fuel for the ongoing process of developing at the proper pace. “Tiny venues and blowing them out, leaving money on the table allowed Billie to be on the right size stage, to look her fans in the eyes. She got to play the Rickshaw in overalls, rolling around on the ground – and apologies to everyone who couldn’t get tickets.”

Morgan, who’s been instrumental in Lizzo’s small but explosive rise, cites a similar process. “In 2014, she did Reading, Leeds, Coachella, and was in Time, Rolling Stone, plus a 2015 tour with Sleater-Kinney, because Carrie Brownstein was like ‘We have to have her.’ We wouldn’t have normally thought of her, but that really strong feminist audience was such an explosive moment for her.”

Still in 2017, Lizzo contemplated quitting. “I put out ‘Truth Hurts’ and ‘Good As Hell,’ why am I not getting traction?” she queried, even as she was selling out 1,500-seat theaters and building on so many levels. Today, the slow build has netted one of the year’s big stories.

For Fucigna and Battiato, their challenges lie with both the talent and the buyers. They need to convince podcasters and influencers that their brand can translate in the live format – and buyers have to understand what they’re ultimately promoting. “The acts we work with have large followings, so this more developing a new business, putting the right people around them and putting them in the right rooms to prove there IS a ticket sale demand. The straight measures aren’t that simple. You have to ask, ‘How engaged are the fans? Buying books and merch, making comments. Smaller numbers, but highly engaged can be just as lucrative. Sometimes a specialist in a specific area can be a big draw.”

For Nuciforo, even with the accelerated passage ways of social media, SiriusXM, Pandora, Netflix and Amazon for comics, the challenge remains having the time to develop a voice. Working with Ali Wong, who did 13 Masonics in San Francisco, or Sebastian Maniscolo who had four sold-out nights at Madison Square Garden, he leans into his own set of basics. “Comedy is singular: the audience is much different in terms of lifestyles and demographics. But if you have the marketing nailed, take the shot at representing someone.

“Look for self-motivated, self-generated multi-hyphenated. You want people who do stand up, but also write for themselves in terms of film and TV, who act, podcast, do books, or even brand endorsement deals. That way, while you work on their tour, they can touch these other areas of the company to engage all the departments.”

Del Granado, who spent 10 years managing Ricky Martin and four years running Guy Oseary and Madonna’s Maverick operations in South America, is bullish on multiculturalism. Citing Latin Americans who like to go out and have a good time, the median age of the consumer is 29 instead of 38 – and they appreciate music that speaks to their culture.

“The Latin market is huge here,” explained the key agent for Bad Bunny and Luis Fonsi. “Plus, there 400 million people in Latin America, and another 45 million in Spain. If he or she comes from Columbia or Argentina, the challenge as agents is how do we expand to Spain or the rest of South America. I’m thinking global, but in my world, just like the hip-hop world, there’s a lot of mom and pop shops who book dates, promote shows … And they’re saying, ‘I’m already doing it. What else can YOU do for me?’ It’s not just UTA we have to compete with in terms of signing and developing out artists.”

Del Granado, who lamented immigration trouble for Mexican acts, closed borders for Cuban artists and ISIS raids creating 20% fall-offs for many artists, explained the trick to multiculturalism is finding marketeers who understand where to find the non-English speaking audience – and recognizing that many artists have managers who speak little English.

All agreed on the power of dynamic ticketing, as both a minimize the secondary market and get people in seats. For Eillish, who couldn’t have afforded her own tickets three years ago, she works with Global Citizen, so kids can and do volunteer work to access tickets – taking dynamics beyond dollars to help get true fans in the seats.

Predictions for next year, or “Green Bananas” as Morgan called them, were diverse.

Bollwinkel told people to watch out for Eillish’s brother Finneas, while Morgan cited both Summer Walker and the Marc Geiger-signed Mongolian rock band the Hu. Del Granado thinks the urban reggaetón/trap music will find a counterbalance with mariachi urbano, Fucigna and Battiano cites Heather McCann as a strong comer in the podcast/influencer space with a 25-35 rabid female base and Nuciforo cites both the expanding Christian comedy market, as well as standup from Nicki Glaser, Michelle Wold, Whitney Cummings and Impractical Joker Salvio Incanna. – Holly Gleason Hip-Hop Power Panel

ICM powerhouse Yves Pierre (Migos, Lil Yachty) moderated the afternoon’s Hip-Hop Power Panel, deftly engaging panelists with a set of questions before opening the floor halfway through to questions from the audience. She led off with the perennial “stats/data” question, specifically eliciting how The Numbers assist each panelist to know audiences.

The general consensus was that stats can be helpful, for example in exploring new markets, but that ultimately “gut feeling” and observing how an artist is building his/her brand trump data. Ryan Northcott (Bank of California Stadium) summarized nicely, offering “analytics get you to pay attention to somebody, but … for me, I’m a feel person, I gotta like the music.” Casey McCabe (AGE/Bowery Presents) also reminded that, on the venue side, streams don’t automatically equate to ticket sales and vice versa.

Speaking of tickets, Ms. Pierre posited there is a shaky prognosis for festivals vs. hard-ticket sales, citing a number of festivals that did not come back this year. Asking the panel if the ideology of the festival model has surpassed the philosophy behind hard ticket sales, CAA’s Joe Hadley (Beyonce, NAO) believes, “in some cases it has, but it shouldn’t. Festivals can be a great tool to help you build an artist’s career, but it shouldn’t be what’s driving it.” WME’s Kevin Shivers (Kid Cudi, Pod Save America, Solange, Tyler The Creator) agreed, with a twist: “I always think you should strive to headline your own shows,” but occasionally there is an artist whose “perception is higher than their hard ticket worth” who isn’t ready to headline and is instead better off being assigned to festivals to build a base. Mr. McCabe also opined that festivals are and should be a stepping-stone to headlining.

Pierre shifted the focus to marketing, asking if there are differences in marketing hip hop from other genres. The agents had very different responses from the venue representatives. Shivers pointed out hip hop artists tend to be much more directly interactive with their fan base, particularly via Instagram, while Hadley noted there is a difference within hip hop between those artists who get radio play and those who don’t — and therefore require more grassroots promotion strategies and recruitment of co-promoters. On the “building” side, both Northcott and McCabe emphasized the role of timing in hip hop marketing; to the extent McCabe has expects a late sell, and therefore saves a big portion of his ad budget to spend at the last minute in hopes of a “big walk-up.” Circling back to the importance of local promotion and co-promoters in hip hop, ultimately no one made a convincing case that local promotion is exclusive to hip hop. Questions ranged from the importation and growth of Afrobeat (it’s happening slowly, and requires cross-education of African bands about U.S. business models, and for U.S. promoters about artists, where both Pierre and Hadley agree the trick requires investing the time and patience to educat all stakeholders about how Afrobeat can grow into a viable business) to whether posters and flyers are still effective marketing devices (while 90% of marketing is digital, there is still a place for the warm feeling associated with having a flyer in hand). Discussion turned to reading the future of what hip hop will look like in 5-to-10 years. Pierre made a compelling argument that. the current batch of emerging artists are authentic, non-conforming, and kids “see themselves” in these artists. She anticipates this authenticity will contribute to staying power of these young acts. At the same time, “heritage acts” such as Wu Tang Clan launched tours this year and from the POV of promoters, it’s always a plus to work with road-tested, professional acts who don’t need to be taught the ropes. – Meghan Hayes National Touring Power Panel

Easily the shortest panel of the three days, Red Light’s Megan Wilson got the ground covered quickly and efficiently, so she could send attendees to the bar – or their rooms to freshen up for the Honors & Awards Ceremony. With Live Nation’s Kelly Kapp, Messina Touring’s Kate McMahon, AGI’s Adam Kornfeld and Fiserv Forum’s Raj Saha, it was the best of the best weighing the realities of national tour promoters, building who’re engaged and the best way to make the most of your dates.

Ironically, everyone stressed the fundamentals. From McMahon telling attendees to come into the office, take the time to make sure everyone knows what’s going on with/in your building on the. promoter side to Saha as a building saying “Pick up the phone. Arrange trips to see people when other things aren’t going on, because a lot of (getting dates) is trust” to Kapp reminding people that the building experience begins when the crew arrives for load-in. As Kapp said, “We may not hear about it until next year (when they’re figuring the routing), but if the artists aren’t treated well, top to bottom, then you can lose the business.”

Saha, a global veteran of running buildings, concurred, saying, “When you make it an easy day for the crew, everything else goes better. We have a coffee shop that has a cart in our building, and it comes backstage before the floor marking, so people can get what they want.”

Saha was also quick to stress that with the Bucks being on national television, his building not only has a built-in awareness campaign, they have the ability to cross-promote shows with the NBA machinery and in-house social media for the basketball team.

All stressed the power of the synergy in an increasingly competitive entertainment marketplace. With McMahon stressing, “You can do more things nationally (with the act), and have a quickness to change when it’s one person,” Kornfeld also stressed, “As much as you’re engaged with the national coordinator, I still want to speak locally to every venue. The artist comes to me, so I want to speak to everyone involved.”

With an increasing focus on social media, radio still plays a role. Tour sponsors, especially liquor brands, are also a reality to be navigated. While not clear cut, it comes down to how competitors can coexist in the space. For McMahon with Chesney and his self-owned Blue Chair Bay Spirits, “With our pre-made drinks and branded cups, it’s part of the experience – and people get that. It’s not really been a problem.”

Everyone acknowledge that it’s the locals who know where the fans are, have the data and recognize the local factors that impact on-sales, economic realities and competition. For the national promoter, it’s a way to have active in-market outreach; for the local partner, it’s a way to work with larger artists who’re seeking consistency.

Kornfeld, the ultimate realist, recognizes opportunity at all turns. “Any promoter should be looking to sell tickets or seats. People like to tell me they can’t get the Stones or U2, but if someone of lesser status can sell out your venue, who cares? IF you sell it out, do a good job, why do you care?”

And on the other side, Kornfeld jokes about how the dust settles, “We get the email, get the settlement, so numberwise, I know. But if I don’t get a phone call, that’s when I know everybody’s happy.”