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‘If You Want To Go Fast, Go Alone; If You Want To Go Far, Go Together’: Q’s With Lina Ugrinovska
It’s the festival season, and Lina Ugrinovska, CEO of the multidisciplinary agency Banana & Salt, says, she’s never had a more difficult time booking artists than in the summer of 2024. She’s been writing about her experience on her own social channels, confronting what she described as “systemic inefficiencies, largely perpetuated by the teams around the artists.”
She also spoke of a “reckless pursuit of immediate gain, devoid of strategic foresight,” which stood in direct opposition “to the industry’s long-term sustainability.” Pollstar wanted to know more, so we reached out to Ugrinovska via email to delve a bit deeper into some of the issues she raised.
Pollstar: Can you give a few examples of the neglect and incompetence, as well as the unprofessionalism you’ve witnessed in this business in recent times?
Lina Ugrinovska: As with many aspects of mass production and consumerism, the music industry is increasingly characterized by a nonchalant approach that is becoming disturbingly pervasive. There has never been more money and fewer opportunities to juggle with. So it’s not about the money; it’s about the structure.
Despite working harder than ever, the erosion of common sense and professionalism is glaringly apparent. I have faced sudden cancellations with no proper statement, as I should have received, and frankly, with no sense of accountability for not fully engaging in the process, nor any concern for the consequences. I have spoken to numerous bookers and promoters, who are seriously struggling: you pay exorbitant fees, receive only half of the band, offer insane amounts, and they keep you in limbo for months, only to decline when you can no longer find a headliner. I do not want to be in such an environment.
The responsibility towards the person you are negotiating with, towards the audience, and towards the career the artist has built is my imperative. To have no shame is to have no integrity, and without integrity, there are no rules.
You speak of a reckless pursuit of immediate gain, which shows, among other things, in inflated artist fees. Is this a result of the fear of the uncertain economic/political times we’re living in? Are there other reasons for the inflated fees?
The rise in fees within the music industry is a well-known phenomenon, but the recent trend of inflated fees, where artists demand up to five times what they asked for just ten months ago, is a direct and proportional result of the neglect, incompetence, and unprofessionalism I mentioned earlier. While inflation does impact these fees, it is no longer viewed as a situation to navigate and structure around; instead, it is seen as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to [make a living].
As the world grows larger, the effort people put into things seems to diminish, reflecting a shift in human behavior that warrants reflection. Such a reckless pursuit of immediate gain, driven by fear of uncertain economic and political times, ultimately leads to shorter careers and an increasing amount of errors. When art becomes a business, and you allow the business to control you instead of managing it yourself, it becomes a ticking bomb. Unfortunately, we cannot take a step back now and recalibrate the market, because the damage we’ve caused will first impact the core of the industry and then extend to all other parts of the ecosystem. This reality is stark, and the consequences of our actions are unavoidable.
How much responsibility in all the developments mentioned above does the artist have?
It’s important to recognize that there is no one-size-fits-all approach with artists, just as there isn’t with the people around them. Each artist has unique needs, aspirations, and creative visions, and the industry professionals supporting them must tailor their strategies accordingly. Blaming the artists ignores the complex dynamics at play and oversimplifies the issue. The responsibility lies with the industry to foster an environment where both artists and their teams can thrive without compromising their integrity or the essence of their art.
Ultimately, the success of an artist is a collective effort, requiring a deep understanding of the cultural and business landscapes. As industry professionals, we must strive to balance the demands of the market with the artistic values that define our work. We need to be smarter and more strategic in our approaches, ensuring that we support artists in a way that sustains their careers and preserves the cultural significance of their contributions.
Say you had a particularly loyal artist that wants to stay with an independent promoter/agency no matter what. Can an independent company even fulfill a worldwide tour, all the exciting opportunities to perform at iconic venues, etc.? Are there still enough independent local partners – venues, promoters, etc. – in all those worldwide markets to organize a tour without a major player’s involvement?
Success in the music industry has no single path, and shortcuts don’t lead to long-term achievements. While a loyal artist staying with an independent promoter is commendable, the number of truly independent partners – venues, promoters, etc — has diminished significantly.
Avoiding the majors entirely is tough but not impossible. It requires meticulous planning, strategic alliances, and commitment to artistic integrity. And in order to do this, you need seriously well-equipped professionals. And in order to get those professionals, they need to be able to feed their passion by being part of an industry that has some purpose. Though the journey might be tougher, the resulting career longevity and fulfillment are worth it.
Corporations must give independent companies a “seat at the table” or face growing animosity. Diverse viewpoints are essential. Without this, the divide between independents and corporates will widen. Nothing is impossible; changing one’s perspective makes the difference. With creative thinking, we can transform the system to help artists thrive, distinguishing the good from the best.
You mentioned things were different when you started out in this biz. How long ago was that? And how much of it boils down to the fact, that it used to be individual entrepreneurs getting together to build something from scratch out of pure passion; and now it’s a fully-fledged business, where lawyers and business administrators have a lot of influence?
I’ve been in this business for over 15 years, and the current trend is alarming. The industry is increasingly dominated by lawyers and business administration graduates, who often lack an understanding of the music industry’s cultural role. This top-down shift is distancing us from our core purpose. The music scene should be a gatekeeper of the cultural stamp of our time, shaped by the entire industry, not just the artists.
Unfortunately, as more outsiders drive the structure, we stray further from this goal. There was a time when there was enough space for people to try and build an independent movement without having to quit before they even got started. The lack of drive and purpose is always a killer, no matter the industry. It’s imperative that industry members invest in their knowledge and professionalism to truly understand and fulfill their roles.
You can see it in other industries: the more the focus is just on growth, the more long-term repercussions get ignored in favor of short-term gain. How do we change a short-term focused mindset?
To reach for the apple instead of the cake is something that can change through practice. If you never teach your child about the benefits of the apple, they will always go for the known pleasure of the cake, and they will be justified in doing so. It is no surprise that, in a world that loses 100 festivals a year, people are eager to pursue short-term gains because they are fearful of what tomorrow may bring.
The past few years have fostered a sense of individuality, as we were scared for our lives and entered survival mode. This is the result. There’s an African proverb that says, “If you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go together.” People are full of impatience, and from that perspective, any industry seems like a battlefield. If we were to create the industry with this attitude now, for the first time, it would be like a bunch of people fighting in front of a store during a sale for products they don’t even know the real market price of.
If it really all starts with the artists, how much does the lack of idealism in artists play into the current state of the industry?
I think the industry was very successful in making the wall between management/agents and the artists thicker. I’m much more worried about the idealism in the people involved in the industry, than I am for the artists’ idealism. Their work can bloom, and it will find its way like the flower that blooms out of the concrete. The ones who build that concrete are all of us, the people around the artists, and we are the worst architects in the 21st century. I’m positive that the only thing that will lead to a strong and powerful shift, is us recalibrating within the teams themselves.