Josh Kline On Booking Bands

Up until a few months ago Kline was working in The Agency Group’s New York office.  While still based in New York at the very same office, Kline has seen a different name on the front door since United Talent Agency acquired The Agency Group in August. 

Regardless of the company moniker appearing on the letterhead, Kline’s passion for music as well as for the acts he represents remains unbounded.  Whether it’s that gig coming up on Friday night or a tour planned three years in the future, Kline immerses himself in all aspects of his clients’ careers.  Could a band ask for anything more from an agent?

What’s one of the biggest misconceptions others in the music industry have about booking agents?

I think there’s a misconception about what the A&R process is. Even if you have big acts in a particular genre, you still have to really keep your eyes and ears open and you never know where you’re going to find the next band that you’re going to fall in love with.  People just assume that [agents] get handed bands all day long and that’s how we build our roster, but that isn’t how it works.  It is really having to be in touch and in tune with culture and the changing in the landscape of certain styles of music.  It is still about going out to shows, it’s about listening to music, buying music, watching videos and just meeting with people. 

But at the end of the day there isn’t one particular way that agents are finding their acts.  It’s not like there is an assembly line of bands and we just pick which ones we like.

Staying current with music is one thing, but how do you stay current with culture, trends and other aspects?

I think any savvy agent can spend a little extra time in their day, not just listening to the music that’s sent to them by the people in the music industry.  Without naming names, I get sent stuff all the time from people that I’d never expect to be an additional set of ears in the world.  They just happen to come across something, and I listen to those people.  We all know mavens, people who can identify talent way ahead of the curve. And it might even be somebody who isn’t posting links to YouTube or SoundCloud.  It might be somebody who posts a photograph on Instagram of a person.  And if you look deeper into that person, you find out they’re a musician and making great music.

By culture, I mean there’s so much content in the universe of art now.  You have to really be keen on following people who have great taste, collaborating with them and sharing with them so they share with you.

Did you always want to be an agent?

No.  I kind of stumbled into it, which is a strange, long story.  My first real job in music was building drums for a British drum company that had a U.S. office – Premier Percussion.  I started in the warehouse just throwing boxes.  Eventually went into customer services, which sort of dove-tailed into A&R.  I worked for years with a guy named Joe Hibbs, who’s a living legend. … Anybody in the drum industry, even drummers who aren’t part of the industry know his name.  He just had a knack for finding talent, as did I, at the time.

So we worked together for a few years signing up drummers to play our drums.  By coincidence, many of these drummers happened to be drummers who were in bands booked by a couple of other agents named Tim Borror and Nick Storch.  They happened to work just a couple of miles down the road at Borror’s independent agency, which is ultimately where I ended up.  But in between the drum job and the agent job, there were a couple of micro-jobs … that I had no idea were navigating me toward becoming an agent.

What were you thinking of doing with your life before you started building drums?

Being a drummer. I played with some bands in my local area.  I really loved playing.  I used to play 15 hours a day, almost.  If I was awake, it was something to do with playing drums – different bands, building drums, testing drums – whatever it was, that was my life. That part of my history was drums for years.  Then I sort of grew away from that but I still identify a large part of the talent that I ultimately signed [with drums].  The first key element is, if I listen to it once and I put it on again, do I know the drum parts?  Because if I do, that means I was really listening and it really sunk in.  If, after three or four listens it doesn’t attach itself to me like an impulse to want to play along, it probably isn’t something I’m going to sign.

Where were you when all of this was going on?

This was in the Philadelphia area.  South Jersey, Philadelphia and it wasn’t for a few years that I came to New York, which was when Tim and I and a couple of other people from the company joined The Agency Group.

One of your bands, Bring Me The Horizon, recently saw its first single from its new album hit No. 1 on iTunes Rock Chart. 

I’ve been working with them since the [beginning] of their career, which is exciting, also a little unusual to be in that early.  It was so early that the band really hadn’t started playing gigs, even in the U.K., at that point.  It was very, very early and based on some very early music they recorded on their own budget.  It’s an interesting thing.  The band is a phenomena.  They’re very talented and they have a great team that works with them from the label and management side.  It’s a testament to what you can do if you can make fans who will stick with you no matter how far you push the envelope.  The music they recently put out, I would say, for the most part is at the other end of the spectrum from where they started.

How did you discover them?

This goes back, I guess, to the beginning.  I used to communicate quite a bit with bands who didn’t have managers or labels, through Myspace messaging.  I would find them on the music chart, take a look at what they had going on and send a friendly message that said, “Hi. This is who I am, this is what I do.  I like what you’re doing.  Maybe we should do it together.”  It was basically that simple.  Sometimes it took a while and there are plenty of bands that I talked to who I remain friendly with that I didn’t sign, that other people went on to sign.  But, I think, it was no different than how a lot of us communicate today and how we find stuff.  It was just simpler times then. There were fewer places to look for music.

Having been with Bring Me The Horizon for so many years, you must have seen spikes in the band’s career, those game-changing moments that take a group to the next level.

It’s interesting because when they first hit the scene in America, it was a vertical strike because they had never been here, there was no press and they were opening for another artist.  After the first two nights promoters were calling, saying, “How do we get this band to play two sets?  Can they close the show?  What’s it going to take?” And we considered it and ultimately said, “Thanks, but no thanks. We made our agreement and we’re going to stick to that agreement.” Then we subsequently continued to add tour dates, basically creating a bit of daisy chain of tours and gradually moving our way up the bill until we were headlining. From there doing bigger tours along the way. Warped Tour was very instrumental at the beginning.  Then going into bigger club tours, co-headline tours, pretty much leading us to where we are now which is a main stage festival act, selling out 2,000-5,000 capacity rooms, or bigger in some parts of the world.

When you have a new band and you’re selling dates to promoters who are completely unaware of the act, what’s in your tool set that will convince them that they need to book this act?

Going back to the beginning, I can tell you the first show [Bring Me The Horizon] headlined in North America was in Philadelphia.  I sold it to a friend of mine who was a promoter at a venue, a legendary, sort of DIY punk hardcore venue called First Unitarian Church.  That was like the breeding ground for new acts.  That would be the venue you would play.

I just said to him, “We do other business and now I have some business for you that’s a little maybe outside of your wheelhouse but I really believe in this band. Can you give me some kind of deal?”

He made me a small offer and said, “Sure, I’ll do this.”  It wasn’t his style of music but he understood that I wanted to do it with him, so he appreciated that.  He was happy when he put it on sale to see tickets moving right from the beginning.  I don’t know if it sold out, but it got close.  It was a midweek show for a band he considered to be pretty much unknown, and hundreds and hundreds of kids turned out to see this band.  He was shocked and I was happy.  That was the beginning of that tour I mentioned where promoters were calling and saying, “We should move that band up the bill.”

Other than booking your bands, how involved are you with other issues, such as merchandising, TV appearances or even record store signings?

It really is a case-by- case thing.  It ultimately comes down to scheduling and, perhaps, a little bit of editorial, such as, “Can we do it on this day, not this day.  Routing-wise it would be better …” But any artist I work with I definitely get involved with looking at the merch they’re selling and asking questions about how much they’re selling, what sizes they’re selling, looking at the inventory as they go along.  Sometimes you can have a show that doesn’t sell a ton of tickets but they sell out of merch.  If you can look at what the price points were, the configuration of extra small, small, medium, XL, you can kind of get a picture of who was there.  So you can say, “All right. I know we have a younger demographic or maybe it’s an older demographic, maybe it’s especially males.”  So the more information that you can consume about what your artist is doing out there, the more educated you can book the next tours going forward.

So even when your bands aren’t discussing tour-related business, you’re very much involved.

I really take a holistic approach in the way I work with artists.  I think everything an artist is doing is inseparable.  Especially if it’s an artist who is growing, getting bigger.  All of that information, all of those different revenue streams and different assets are working together even if it’s on a more discrete level. Helping to identify, “This right here is really useful information.  We’re going to need to use this subset of information going forward.” Then we can put more focus on it and make it part of our tool kit.  Using that kind of information, for me in selling a new band, is essential, if it’s an unknown or underground artist.

Are you involved with your bands’ social media efforts?

I don’t personally administer any of the accounts for my artists, but I do keep an eye on them.  I obviously follow every single artist, not just the band accounts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, but also the individual members, and sometimes the crew members and the managers, the label people, all the way down the line.  They’re part of the story and the more pages from the book you read, the better you can tell the story to other people.

Can you book any genre of artists represented by your agency?

I’ve tried my hand at booking all kind of things.  I don’t know necessarily that if I wasn’t working with a team that I would personally sign a bunch of stuff outside of the rock space.  But I do, personally, have an appreciation for hip hop and electronic music, in particular.

How much time do you spend per day doing what you do?  Is it an all-consuming 24/7 experience?

I was thinking about this earlier.  I think anyone in this business is engaged almost all day on different areas.  There are some people who are really good at problem solving.  There are some people who are really good at multi-tasking.  There are some people who are good at creating concepts, just working on ideas and not necessarily working on sculpting tours or clearing dates, the nuts & bolts of booking.

The one thing I really love is being surrounded by such a variety of agents who all are seemingly good at all of this stuff.  We all have our differences in that somebody is tremendous at this, good at that, versus the other.  We’re all pretty good at our jobs and willing and able to help each other across the whole roster, solve problems, come up with ideas and package.  A lot of what I’m thinking about is communication.  Making sure to communicate with my teams here to maximize everybody’s opportunities.

You were with The Agency Group, which was acquired by United Talent Agency.  Other than changes in letterhead and some differences in the organizational chart, how does that affect you individually?

I would say it’s been a great process.  This really is a place that’s exceptional for agents and artists.  When we were acquired by UTA, we all knew it was going to be something really unique and special.  That, to me, has been exciting and inspiring.  I feel really good about the situation, personally.

But does it mean more money to work with, larger offices, a bigger roster for you to handle?

I’m not sure I can answer that question. It hasn’t been that much time.  Again, everything I’ve been exposed to here has, personally, been very exciting.  I love the culture of the company and I love all of the projects the company is working on across all the different divisions.  In particular, the feeling within UTA Music is that of excitement.  All the music agents here really feel enthused working together, building teams and looking at our prospects, globally working toward a common goal. It’s really about the clients. We really want to serve our clients and make this a place where our artists feel that they’re thriving and getting the maximum potential out of their careers. That’s what makes us happy.

When signing a new act, are you already sizing up the long-term potential and thinking where they will be five, 10 or 20 years down the road?

Here’s an interesting way to answer that question.  Most of the bands I’ve signed, I signed before seeing them live. Because I have a certain vision in my mind of what their music is.  I don’t necessarily mean what their live show is because the live show will evolve and you can move things on and off stage.  But the spirit and soul of an artist’s sound is really the hood ornament of the vessel going forward.  If you can feel that this artist has another 300, 400 percent potential beyond what they’re giving you now, that is something that I like to work with.  I like to say to them, “You’re doing great. You’re killing it on tour.  But let’s keep evolving this thing because we all agree we can reach another level of creative potential.” And you reach it.  It’s that process over and over again until you’re 10 years in and you’ve gone from a band making $100 a night to a band on main stage festivals and selling hundreds of thousands of records.

Would it be accurate to say you’re not involved with the actual live show or an act’s presentation?

I wouldn’t say no across the board.  It depends on the artist.  Some of them choose simplicity and some of them choose an elaborate stage set for each tour.  I would say today, during the last few months, the artists I’ve worked with the longest are just now bringing out their biggest shows.  I’m talking about bands I’ve worked with 7-10 years.  At this moment they’re starting to fully realize the potential of their live shows.  They’ve been out there playing shows and selling tickets but now they’re bringing stage pieces, complex lighting, projection and different things.  I wouldn’t say I’m heavy-handed involved, but I’m certainly involved in a “This is a good idea,” “This might be more cost-effective than this,” and “This thing isn’t going to work.  It’s too cumbersome and will cause problems on the road.”  I have those kinds of conversations but I’m not saying to an artist, “Use blue instead of red here.” It’s not that micromanaged.

When one of your bands is touring, how many shows will you usually see?

As many as possible. Bring Me The Horizon’s [most recent]  tour, I think I saw six shows.  I went to the kick-off.  I went to a couple of festivals, a couple of club dates. I enjoyed going out to see them. Again, speaking from a production standpoint, when you have an artist that has a malleable live product where they can update the show as the tour rolls along, as they begin to fine-tune what works best, if you’re observant you can pick up on these little changes and see that the band, the production and the crowd are all kind of evolving together. It’s really cool.  I don’t think it used to be that way but when you’re dealing with some of these new production tricks you can pull, you can be more creative and change your show as you go along.

Behind every agent there’s a very busy assistant.  What does your assistant do for you?

[Gavin Stacey] is an extra set of brain power, really.  He helps solve problems, he identifies problems with paperwork, contracts, deposits.  He’ll sometimes just identify that a promoter is being a little funny.  Then I get a little more involved, saying, “Is there a problem here?”  We usually solve those problems before they’re problems.

And [Gavin] is great.  I couldn’t do it without him.  He’s very cool.  He scouted one of the bands I ended up signing. They’re called Good Tiger.  Their record just went online today and the reaction has been very good.  He just strolled into my office and said, “I know I don’t do this all the time but you really need to check this band out.” I went and listened and was like “Pretty good!”

Was there ever a time when you were an assistant to an agent?

Briefly.  When I joined with Face The Music I was briefly an assistant to Tim Borror and Nick Storch.  But in the first few months I was there I signed a few bands which are still with me – Trivium, All That Remains and Dragonforce.  The potential was clear that I could find talent, book it and be an agent.

What’s your family like?

My mom lives in South Carolina.  I have three older brothers.  Two of them live in Philly and one of them lives in Vermont.

Any of them in show biz?

No, not really.  They’re all musical, though.  They all can play instruments.  They have the impulse of artists and are all very creative.  Our extended family and friends are all very creative people.  A lot of musicians, a lot of artists and generally good people.

I’ve heard people in the industry remark that their own parents don’t understand what they do for a living but it sounds as if you and your family are on the same page.

I don’t think my dad ever came to any of the concerts I booked but he came to shows I played.  And I think he thought that the little shows I played when I was in bands, was what I was making a living from.  So I think he was a little confused about how I was possibly making a living booking these tiny gigs.  I said, “No. They’re kind of different.”  He didn’t care as long as I was happy.

My mom was a brilliant singer, a brilliant piano player and wrote some of her own music.  She doesn’t play or sing now but she still has the impulse.

For the teenager out there who wants a job in the music industry, what can you recommend to them in regards to experiences that they might gain wherever they may be living?

I think any teenager who is listening to a lot of music, … they’re going to have a moment where they hear something, either they find on their own or somebody shares with them with a certain level of passion.  If they feel like this music, whatever it might be, is the most important thing in their life, or the most important musical content that they’ve ever found out about – that’s a pretty good indicator of where that career path may go.

I know it sounds cliché to say that but somebody gave me a cassette tape of “Undertow” by Tool.  I put that on and I was like, “This is absolutely what I want to do with my life.  To try to work with bands that write this kind of music.”  That got me into playing drums way more seriously than I was playing them and it got me obsessed with all kinds of different art forms, video and film.  That, to me, was a gateway thing and I knew then that that would forever be a part of my life.  I don’t know if the discovery process is like that for teenagers now, but any teenager who has had that moment shouldn’t disregard that as just being a fleeting passionate moment.  That’s a very important moment and that really foreshadows the potential for what you can connect to in the music space.

If you could give some advice to the Josh Kline who was building drum kits, what would you tell him?

Don’t worry. Keep working.  That’s it.

Please visit the United Talent Agency’s website for more information.